I'm going to put in a completely new aspect to this. When I wean Charlie I am definitely going to include jars and pouches. When I weaned Abby she only ate homemade, organic purees mixed with BLW. When she was 9 months old we went to Wales for a holiday. I obviously couldn't take frozen meals so I took a variety of jars/pouches. She refused them all (except Ella's fish pie). Obviously it was because my cooking is so wonderful - hee hee - but it was a complete pain as she spent a lot of the holiday hungry and eating food in restaurants that was a lot less "good" for her than balanced jars. On top of that we needed to find somewhere that sold food for her at set times when it would have been nice to just be able to sit on the cliffs and give her a pouch. With Charlie I will include a variety of foods so that he is more easily adaptable (depending on his health, obviously).
H xx
PS Abby is an excellent eater but more because I don't stress than anything. If she wants to just eat the chips on her plate than I let her because I know next time she will eat all her veg and ask for more.
My bro and SiL did what you are describing you will do with Charlie, Blondfriend, and their little boy will eat anything! including trying to eat (ie trying to steal from our plates) many things he should not eat (olives, anchovies on a pizza, lemon wedges - poor thing) we all have to watch him closely!
I will make my girly home made but won't shrink way from jar or pouch once in a while, i'll just keep n eye on the nutritional information when i do!
Us mummies are so flogged by everyone - including each other for whatever choice we make... definitely damned if we do or damned if we don't!
One small tin of spaghetti shapes contains the total amount of sodium a baby should have in an entire day, meaning that on any day it's fed,the safe amounts of sodium are being exceeded.
Having known* a baby who suffered tremendously after being fed salt laden food at a young age, I think feeding any quantity of salt laden adult food to a small baby when there are umpteen safe alternatives is incredibly stupid and foolhardy. There's simply no reason to do it. There are hundreds of appropriate baby foods that can be fed instead.
I'm sure these parents thought they were being safe too:
Mrs No Name - you queried chilli and curry. We've given dd chilli, but separated her portion before adding all the extra spices. She loved it! We haven't given her curry yet, but I'd start with a very mild korma and you can always add more yogurt to make it even milder like someone else suggested.
Both mine have had curries and chillies. Obviously made quite mild and cooled with yoghurt or creme fraiche, but they love it and it's made DD a very adventurous eater. Just make sure you don't add salty stock cubes and check salt levels in ready made curry pastes etc.
I remember when DD was tiny asking my friend(who is from Kashmir in India) if she thought it would be ok to give curry when I started weaning and she laughed in my face and asked what I thought she and her husband had been weaned on!
I know you mean well maenad but you do preach as the "expert" a bit!
I did check (self doubt crept in annoyingly) and the can I have (I have another in the cupboard and intend on using it!) is less than 1g of sodium or salt equivalent for the whole can! As a baby should have no more than 1g a day of salt then I am (again) satisfied that I have done no shockingly bad thing and do not need for you to make me feel that I am poisoning my child.
But thank you for the links and comments - not an over-bearing over-reaction from you at all!
apple pie, if you want to feed your child inappropriate and potentially dangerous food, that's your decision, you created those little kidneys and if you want to put undue strain on them for no good reason at all, I respect that it's your choice to do that. I'me merely supplying information for anyone else reading.
I've never given my daughter (2yrs) spagetti hoops but I know she gets them at nursery every now and again. No food is good every day and you should give restricted amounts. I would also probably leave something like that until 1yr +. However 1/2 small tin with toast soliders or a baked potato once a week is not going to cause any kidney damage. Yes, tiny kidneys do find it harder to deal with large amounts of salt but the harm is only really done if they have to deal with it every day and/or if they are dehydrated as well. I would try hard to keep LO on a salt restricted diet and then it doesn't matter as much on the odd occasion when they have a treat. After all the job of kidneys is to control salt levels in the blood, that's what they do!
Maenad - you mean well and your advice is sound. Many people don't understand the damage salt can do and don't have the education/common sense to give their children an appropriate diet. However most of the women on this site are able to make educated decisions regarding their children's diets.
It's my personal opinion that givinga 6/7 month old baby salt-laden food processed food like spaghetti hoops is a poor decision totally lacking in common sense.
You're right, people don't relaise sometimes how much salt is in things. 3 x 6oz feeds of follow on formula supplies 0.5g salt -over half a baby's daily limit - before you even add solid food. There's 0.4g in a slice of bread, 0.4g in 20g of cheddar cheese, 0.1g in 2 small pots of petit filous. It is really hard to keep a lid on salt consumption even when feeding basic, everyday foods for good nutrition.
That's why it baffles me that anyone would feed an inappropriate, nutritionally poor (for babies) food like tinned spaghetti when the same amount of money could buy them a jar of Hipp spaghetti with tomato and mozzarella, a meal that's nutritionally appropriate, very low in salt and far far healthier for a baby.
I think people do it because it amuses them to feed a baby an 'adult' type food, because they think it's 'cute'. I can see no other reason to choose to feed it, and I've heard the same argument for giving other inappropriate substances like tastes of alcohol. I don't really care if people think I'm pissing on their chips, I've seen the damage that can be done by excess salt in a baby's diet and it's horrible. People need to be aware. What they do with the knowledge is up to them. I reserve the right to an opinion, and mine is that anyone who gives their tiny baby tinned spaghetti is a jackass.
Apple pie just in case you didn't know sodium is higher than salt look for 1 gram of salt if the tin shows a sodium content then you multiply this by 1.5 to get the actual salt level. I know from when I had my ds1 (6 and a half years ago) there are now low salt tins etc but when he was small I remember looking at a small tin of beans and thinking omg there is more salt in here than his daily allowance.
I'm afraid I'm like maenad and a complete salt fanatic, I think my ds1 was nearly 2 before he had anything like beans etc lol I just cook stuff from scratch as I know how much salt is in it ktwj
funny story lol was doing a cook off on monday night so put on 2.5kg of spuds etc on low heat and then left oh to look after them, told him to leave them (and veg etc) until I came back, so come back and he has mashed all the spuds and I know to look at them he has used butter and also 'his' measurements so far too much salt for the baby!!! Was fricken raging as couldn't use these for ds2 so had to peel another bag of spuds, on a lighter note I used 'his' spuds in a lovely sheppherds pie the next day for us!!
AAHHHHHHH I'm banned again ffs but edited to say yes maenad is right 2.5 is the multiplier for sodium I'm a terrible typist too on maternity leave!! lmao maenad not biased at all lmao my kids seem to love my food so it can't be all bad either!!
Admittingly enough there is a big difference between my 2 year old and a 7 month old baby. Some of the things I give her now would not have passed her lips as a young baby. In fact she didn't even have chocolate until she was 15 months old (i ate her advent calender last year ). I do agree that using tinned spagetti as a weaning food is totally inappropriate but as part of a meal for a toddler isn't too bad. Obviously this conversation is in "Baby" so I do agree with you in that case.
Maenad, I think your right that people need to be made aware and I get that you are trying to give people helpful advice but perhaps the reason people take offence so much is that you come across as very much "I'm right and your wrong" about it and you've made apple pie feel like she's an awful mother.
We're supposed to be here to support each other and I don't really think comments like "you created those little kidneys and if you want to put undue strain on them for no good reason at all, I respect that it's your choice to do that" really help anyone do they. And comments like " I reserve the right to an opinion, and mine is that anyone who gives their tiny baby tinned spaghetti is a jackass. " are not really helpful to anyone, they are just you being mean.
Why not offer your advice in a polite manner and if people choose not to take you up on that advice then its down to them. At the end of the day it is just advice and its down to the individual mother how she brings up her child. I'm sure not everyone agrees with everything you do but they won't have a go at you for it or call you a jackass. It's your personal choice.
You need to multiply sodium by 2.5 to get the salt equivalent. So 0.3g sodium is actually 0.75g salt.
I'm a lunatic about salt, I freely confess. It's why I actually think baby food jars/pouches are a good thing, they are nutritionally balanced and low salt so if someone is reallynot confident about cooking for their baby, there is a safe, reasonably priced and healthy option there for them. Granted I don't think they're as tasty as my home cooking, but that's possibly me being biased!
arlik, we actually don't need to support mothers in making decisions that are ill advised. I get my information from the UK Government, a dietician and one of my best friends, who is a paediatric consultant. It's not a matter of *me* being right, those are the guidelines laid down by medical experts. If you want to argue that they're all wrong and apple pie is right, have at. Until then, I'll be very forthright about the matter. The health of babies is too important to fanny around being a bleating syncophant.
I have found some of the posts about salt to be a real eye opener. I wasnt aware about needing to multiply the sodium levels to get the salt level and I was absolutely unaware about sodium in formula and have never taken that into account.
Maenad - I agree that being a sycophant isnt necessarily in the interest of the health of babies but I think you run the risk of being offensive to the point where you're actual advice is overlooked which is a shame. There is a way of providing all that advice that I had never realised before without causing mothers to feel attacked. You know I have the upmost respect for you so what I am trying to get across (rather ineloquently) is that you dont need to be a sycophant if you disagree with some but you could perhaps provide the information in a less aggressive way so that people's instincts is to listen to the advice rather than be defensive about the attacks x
I have found some of the posts about salt to be a real eye opener. I wasnt aware about needing to multiply the sodium levels to get the salt level and I was absolutely unaware about sodium in formula and have never taken that into account.
Maenad - I agree that being a sycophant isnt necessarily in the interest of the health of babies but I think you run the risk of being offensive to the point where you're actual advice is overlooked which is a shame. There is a way of providing all that advice that I had never realised before without causing mothers to feel attacked. You know I have the upmost respect for you so what I am trying to get across (rather ineloquently) is that you dont need to be a sycophant if you disagree with some but you could perhaps provide the information in a less aggressive way so that people's instincts is to listen to the advice rather than be defensive about the attacks x
ok I think you may have mis read or I have not written it very well.
I meant overall the whole site we are meant to be supportive to each other and offer advice or FACTS in a friendly well meant way.
I'm not actually saying you are wrong and you seem to be an expert in salt and I'm not denying you know what you are talking about.
My point is that the way you offer these facts to apple pie is not done in a way that is helpful at all or in a way that would encourage her to look at salt intake in a new way.
I'm sure you would not respond very well if people called you a jackass in your decisions you make.
Can you not just talk to people in a normal manner? You know "I'm not sure your aware, but did you know this about salt..." - maybe people would respond better to the helpful advice and facts you offer.
Replies
H xx
PS Abby is an excellent eater but more because I don't stress than anything. If she wants to just eat the chips on her plate than I let her because I know next time she will eat all her veg and ask for more.
I will make my girly home made but won't shrink way from jar or pouch once in a while, i'll just keep n eye on the nutritional information when i do!
Us mummies are so flogged by everyone - including each other for whatever choice we make... definitely damned if we do or damned if we don't!
Having known* a baby who suffered tremendously after being fed salt laden food at a young age, I think feeding any quantity of salt laden adult food to a small baby when there are umpteen safe alternatives is incredibly stupid and foolhardy. There's simply no reason to do it. There are hundreds of appropriate baby foods that can be fed instead.
I'm sure these parents thought they were being safe too:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/404667.stm
* By 'known', I mean 'my mother was his social worker after he was taken into protective custody by the local authority'.
I remember when DD was tiny asking my friend(who is from Kashmir in India) if she thought it would be ok to give curry when I started weaning and she laughed in my face and asked what I thought she and her husband had been weaned on!
I'm quite grateful he doesn't like tomato sauce stuff from tins really. Its about the only food on his plate he prefers to play with than eat!! xx
I did check (self doubt crept in annoyingly) and the can I have (I have another in the cupboard and intend on using it!) is less than 1g of sodium or salt equivalent for the whole can! As a baby should have no more than 1g a day of salt then I am (again) satisfied that I have done no shockingly bad thing and do not need for you to make me feel that I am poisoning my child.
But thank you for the links and comments - not an over-bearing over-reaction from you at all!
Maenad - you mean well and your advice is sound. Many people don't understand the damage salt can do and don't have the education/common sense to give their children an appropriate diet. However most of the women on this site are able to make educated decisions regarding their children's diets.
It's my personal opinion that givinga 6/7 month old baby salt-laden food processed food like spaghetti hoops is a poor decision totally lacking in common sense.
You're right, people don't relaise sometimes how much salt is in things. 3 x 6oz feeds of follow on formula supplies 0.5g salt -over half a baby's daily limit - before you even add solid food. There's 0.4g in a slice of bread, 0.4g in 20g of cheddar cheese, 0.1g in 2 small pots of petit filous. It is really hard to keep a lid on salt consumption even when feeding basic, everyday foods for good nutrition.
That's why it baffles me that anyone would feed an inappropriate, nutritionally poor (for babies) food like tinned spaghetti when the same amount of money could buy them a jar of Hipp spaghetti with tomato and mozzarella, a meal that's nutritionally appropriate, very low in salt and far far healthier for a baby.
I think people do it because it amuses them to feed a baby an 'adult' type food, because they think it's 'cute'. I can see no other reason to choose to feed it, and I've heard the same argument for giving other inappropriate substances like tastes of alcohol. I don't really care if people think I'm pissing on their chips, I've seen the damage that can be done by excess salt in a baby's diet and it's horrible. People need to be aware. What they do with the knowledge is up to them. I reserve the right to an opinion, and mine is that anyone who gives their tiny baby tinned spaghetti is a jackass.
Apple pie just in case you didn't know sodium is higher than salt look for 1 gram of salt if the tin shows a sodium content then you multiply this by 1.5 to get the actual salt level. I know from when I had my ds1 (6 and a half years ago) there are now low salt tins etc but when he was small I remember looking at a small tin of beans and thinking omg there is more salt in here than his daily allowance.
I'm afraid I'm like maenad and a complete salt fanatic, I think my ds1 was nearly 2 before he had anything like beans etc lol I just cook stuff from scratch as I know how much salt is in it ktwj
funny story lol was doing a cook off on monday night so put on 2.5kg of spuds etc on low heat and then left oh to look after them, told him to leave them (and veg etc) until I came back, so come back and he has mashed all the spuds and I know to look at them he has used butter and also 'his' measurements so far too much salt for the baby!!! Was fricken raging as couldn't use these for ds2 so had to peel another bag of spuds, on a lighter note I used 'his' spuds in a lovely sheppherds pie the next day for us!!
AAHHHHHHH I'm banned again ffs but edited to say yes maenad is right 2.5 is the multiplier for sodium I'm a terrible typist too on maternity leave!! lmao maenad not biased at all lmao my kids seem to love my food so it can't be all bad either!!
H xx
We're supposed to be here to support each other and I don't really think comments like "you created those little kidneys and if you want to put undue strain on them for no good reason at all, I respect that it's your choice to do that" really help anyone do they. And comments like " I reserve the right to an opinion, and mine is that anyone who gives their tiny baby tinned spaghetti is a jackass. " are not really helpful to anyone, they are just you being mean.
Why not offer your advice in a polite manner and if people choose not to take you up on that advice then its down to them. At the end of the day it is just advice and its down to the individual mother how she brings up her child. I'm sure not everyone agrees with everything you do but they won't have a go at you for it or call you a jackass. It's your personal choice.
I'm a lunatic about salt, I freely confess. It's why I actually think baby food jars/pouches are a good thing, they are nutritionally balanced and low salt so if someone is reallynot confident about cooking for their baby, there is a safe, reasonably priced and healthy option there for them. Granted I don't think they're as tasty as my home cooking, but that's possibly me being biased!
Maenad - I agree that being a sycophant isnt necessarily in the interest of the health of babies but I think you run the risk of being offensive to the point where you're actual advice is overlooked which is a shame. There is a way of providing all that advice that I had never realised before without causing mothers to feel attacked. You know I have the upmost respect for you so what I am trying to get across (rather ineloquently) is that you dont need to be a sycophant if you disagree with some but you could perhaps provide the information in a less aggressive way so that people's instincts is to listen to the advice rather than be defensive about the attacks x
Maenad - I agree that being a sycophant isnt necessarily in the interest of the health of babies but I think you run the risk of being offensive to the point where you're actual advice is overlooked which is a shame. There is a way of providing all that advice that I had never realised before without causing mothers to feel attacked. You know I have the upmost respect for you so what I am trying to get across (rather ineloquently) is that you dont need to be a sycophant if you disagree with some but you could perhaps provide the information in a less aggressive way so that people's instincts is to listen to the advice rather than be defensive about the attacks x
I meant overall the whole site we are meant to be supportive to each other and offer advice or FACTS in a friendly well meant way.
I'm not actually saying you are wrong and you seem to be an expert in salt and I'm not denying you know what you are talking about.
My point is that the way you offer these facts to apple pie is not done in a way that is helpful at all or in a way that would encourage her to look at salt intake in a new way.
I'm sure you would not respond very well if people called you a jackass in your decisions you make.
Can you not just talk to people in a normal manner? You know "I'm not sure your aware, but did you know this about salt..." - maybe people would respond better to the helpful advice and facts you offer.