Unfortunatley these days you just don't know what is going to happen. My chef at work stepped in a few nights ago when a woman was getting abused on a bus, the bus was full but only he stepped up and said something and then a group of guys dragged him off the bus and beat him up and no-body did anything to help him even though he had been trying to help somebody else.
good question...... for me personally, a past experience of stepping in and trying to do the right thing led to me getting a broken nose in the middle of woolworths and not one person stepped in to help me. I was only 16 and me and my younger sister were getting some passport pics taken. The queue was massive but i'm a patient person, so joined it and waited my turn. Behind me was some (sorry but i am bitter) tramp of a girl with a young child and what I could only guess to be her mother effing and blinding about the queue and people taking their time. My little sister got in the booth and as it was her first time, kept asking me questions and asking me what I thought of the pics that were taken. This family behind me were relentless and started calling my sister names. I politely turned around and said "do you mind, shes not used one before, everyone has had to queue we;re nearly done".....oh well that didn't go down lightly.... After I got out and waited for my pics, she lunged at me, punched me in the face and told me she was going to kill me when i got outside along with lots of swearing. Not ONE person stepped in, I called the police myself (my dad ) and she kept threatening all sorts. My poor little sister was in bits.
So, (sorry went o/t there) I swore i'd never intervene again as no-one helped me out and I blatantly needed it.
However, I would prob alert the lifeguard in the case of the sunburnt baby or call the police if I saw trouble like I experienced
Ooooh interesting - funny how so many people say they would intervene yet on a beach packed full of people not one person did, it took PSCO's to do something.
Personally it would really depend on the mood I was in and who I was with. I can easily be persuaded to step in to things like that. So if I was with baby mum friends and no one had the guts, I would do it. If I was on my own maybe not. However as I said it depends on my mood.....I could be prone to do something and equally I could bury my head in the sand.
I think that you have to be so careful with this sort of thing but there are 2 different issues. In the case of the sunburnt baby I would like to think that I would have intervened but I think it all depends on the circumstances at the time, I have absolutely no problem with ringing the Police when I have an issue and have done on many occasions.
However, i think if we're getting on to the subject in some of the posts of intervening when you believe that people are maybe violent etc etc in my opinion (and its no reflection on anyone who might want to intervene) I think it's really shaky ground. Unless you have absolute proof i absolutely disagree with interfering in peoples lives when you have little or no idea of what is actually going on. So much damage can be done by stepping in when it isn't necessary. I do understand though that in the cases of Victoria Climbie and so many others maybe if someone had highlighted it earlier who knows, but people probably didn't because they didn't have the full story?
What I will say is that when I was younger a teacher of my little sister alerted social services about my family. Briefly my sister had been making teeth marks on her arm, who knows why, for fun, maybe to see what happened. A teacher saw it and asked my sister if my dad ever bit her???? Bizarre I know, my sister being young said that yes, when play fighting my dad would bite her, meaning in the fake way that I bite my baby daughter, not actually biting! Bizarre as all that sounds this teacher caused my family great upset by interfering and "leading" my sister in what she said, social services came to the house and were happy that there was nothing wrong but they could so easily have taken what my very young sister said in the wrong way.
And so, I personally would never interfere unless I had some sort of proof of what was happening. In the case of children being in a violent household, sad as it is, this is the case in a million families across the country of all social classes and whilst it is sad it isn't an indication of harm to the child.
It may be the case that no one on the beach intervened because no one noticed?? I push Adam round the park in his pram all the time when it's sunny (adequately protected of course!), but am often off in my own little world, or so busy chatting/singing to him that I wouldn't notice what anyone else was doing.
PCSOs on the other hand are on the look out for such things...
Not noticing is not really a great excuse, but probably quite true for the majority of people on the beach at the time...
"Unless you have absolute proof i absolutely disagree with interfering in peoples lives when you have little or no idea of what is actually going on" ...
.just wanted to add that in the case of where i called SS, i did know what was going on as it was my sister, her husband and their kids so i did have all the proof to intervene, and like i said, things got a lot worse and now on the at risk register, so i'm glad i intervened, and in all honesty, i owuld prefer to intervene even on a suspicion and be wrong, than to not intervene and things go horribly wrong, particulalry where the safety of children is at question.
I also think its possible a step too far saying that its border line child abuse..it really pisses me off that everyone reckons that they care about their babies sooo much that they would never let them get harmed...mistakes are made you know, your not all perfect....i know it sounds stupid, but maybe the mum was just a bit irresponsible and didnt quite realise that her baby was geting burnt, maybe she didnt realise that she needed to reapply more regularly?? no-one on here knows this woman and i think its so wrong that everybody is on their high horse saying how awful it is..my friend text me only the other day saying she felt awful but her baby had a bit of sunburn on his arm, and he's only 3-4 months...she certainly didnt do it on bloody purpose!
Fair point. My aunt was telling me just the other day that she 'let' my cousin get sunburned when he was a baby. Granted, it was a good 20+ years ago when perhaps education about sun damage wasn't quite so prevalent but it happened and she was telling me how mortified she felt.
I see your point vintage but in the case of 40%+ burns then that is more then 'just a bit irresponsible' that points quite rightly at a total lack of any kind of protection to be honest..........and in this case absolutely amounts to child abuse. Stories like this will always cause emotion as it involves a child. But it is beyond irresponsble to leave your child with 40% burns and blisters when a simple case of suncream/hat/UV outfit would have done that baby wonders.
The child's skin was blistering - that's beyond a bit of 'accidental' sunburn. I confess my almost 4 year old has caught the sun a few times - usually in a tiny patch I forgot to cream (she's blonde and very fair) or has gotten mildly red on a day when I didn't realise the strength of the sun; but we've been taking DS out on day trips during this hot weather and not only did I take steps to stop him getting burned, I look at him frequently enough even when he's sleeping to notice if his skin was lobster red and blistering.
Accidents DO happen - but when they happen to this magnitude it indicates a level of neglect that can't be dismissed.
If I felt that the child was suffering from neglect in some way I could not just sit back and do nothing. I think that is the teacher in me! It is important in society that we do not turn a blind eye to things that we can see are clearly harmful to young people. I may not directly confront the offenders but I would certainly contact the police or social services. By intervening you amy only get a temporary response if any at all. I would want to know that the childs welfare was being monitored. After all, i would phone the police or RSPCA if I thought an animal was being neglected so why do people feel it is ok for people to do what they like with their own children. I don't want anyone to feel that I am being judgemental but this is something that I feel very strongly about!
It says in the article in the mail at one point the mother was walking round with the baby with blisters on its legs 2 people stopped her & she carried on you would have to be blind & stupid not to realise the baby was burnt,yeah nobody's perfect we all make mistakes but seriously a child left out in the sun till it gets blisters dam right she should be done for neglect & too right i'm going to get on my high horse & say its awful cos it IS!
I would say yes, however, its one of those situations where you don't know how you would react until you are faced with it.
I recently came across some awful abuse stories of 2 year olds that resulted in their death. Stories like Riley Ann Sawyers, kelsey briggs and baby Brianna Lopez. I would like to think that if I knew of anything like this going on then I would have intervened. I spent a sleepless night after reading these sad stories. It breaks my heart to think how people could hurt their own child or, allow someone else to.
If I had spotted this baby on the beach my initial reaction is to say that yes I would have approached to mum. I would have offered her some suncream or advice in a nice way. IF she had not reacted then I would have called the police.
I have stepped in before when I hve seen children been hurt. I have called SS before and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
In the case of the sunburnt baby I'm assuming it must have been bright red or already developing blisters for the police to act and if it looked like this I would probably offer suncream etc like others have said, the only thing would put me off would be in the off chance they had a condition or something bu I suppose a small bit of embarrassment is better than a wee ba getting burnt.
Re SS yes I would intervene although it must be awful to be accused in the wrong and be investigated if you are innocent then you have nothing to worry about whereas if you are right you could be saving a childs life. I think a lot of people dont ring (in Norn Iron) any way is because of how little they can do.
Take my nephew for EG: me and OH come from good families all work pay our own way non violent, you know NORMAL PEOPLE LOL my BIL had a one night stand with a girl and got her pregnant, she is from an awful family, she was only 18 when she had the baby and her mum couldn't pick her up from the hospital as she was at an all night party taking coke (WTF) so my MIL had to go and buy the girl clothes to come out of the hospital etc and took her home to her house for that day and then she went to her mums the next.
From day 1 HV reported to SS as her house was stinking covered in beer cans etc, my BIL has continously fought for custody (they have joint and he has wee man half of the time) we used to pick him up and he would be stinking, I mean dirt and smelly from he was only a few onths old, he got this condition all over his body which is caused by not cleaning the baby, something boils its called, another time I was with my BIL when we picked him up and his nappy was so full of pee it looked like he hadn't been changed in 2 days and his wee bum was so raw he had to go to the drs. Hes 4 now an din that time has witnessed violence between her and her partner, she has parties at the house, spends all her 'brew' money on coke, even met a guy on the internet and had him back to theirs when my nephew was there.
More recently she is with a new guy who she has reported 4 times for violence (might I point out on one of these occasion SHE broke his jaw and on another her hands were covered in his blood as she was punching him, whil I dont condone any violence she is the aggrivator (all these witnessed by my nephew, and recently her oh tried to choke her with a plastic bag (oh and she s now 10 weeks pregnant to him)
All of us my bil, mil and myself have contacted ss on her, they had meetings with a sw as recent as last week and she said to bil that although it is evident she is a crap mum there isn't enough to remove my nephew from her care WTF??!!!! They did say if my bil wants to go to court again they will back him to go for full custody.
My nephew is a lovely child but he swears and is violent ins school and god love the wee man its really not his fault ssssssoooooooo even when reports are made it does not always make a difference .
(sorry for the rant it shows us all too how a one night stand can change your life our hearts our broken over our wee nephew)
moonbeam you poor thing. It must be so frustrating to have to hand him back to the mother. How awful for you all..... To think she is preg again is just madness. IMO the system seems to fail so many kids. Look at babyP. He was on the at risk register but still was beaten every day of his little life.
I would really, really like to say I would intervene, but like Joo it breaks my heart to say I think I may be among those who wouldn't.
If I had seen the baby arrive and could be certain he had perfect skin to start with (ie that the marks were def burns), then I like to think I would intervene in some way, although I'd be in the "call someone" camp rather than do it directly.
But you know how it is - you look for get-out clauses in a potentially confrontational situation like that (not saying I'm proud of that). I'd think, maybe it's eczema and the mother has been advised to get sunshine on his skin. Perhaps he does have suncream on and it's an allergic reaction. Especially if I was just passing by as opposed to seeing the whole thing unfold.
I think I'd even create obstacles if I DID decide something needed to be done, I'm ashamed to say. I'd think - in a situation like this, who would I call? The police? An ambulance? - would I then have to point out the baby in question on front of everyone? and anyway isn't the police/an ambulance a bit extreme? The RSPCC? - do they do call-outs for sunburn? Genuinely, I would not know who to call - I would think I was time-wasting.
Perhaps I want to give people the benefit of the doubt - or perhaps I'm spineless, not sure.
dont think your spineless at all ptb its really hard to confront some one you dont know inthis day and age who knows what way she should have reacted, people out there are being stabbed for less
cheers dd it is hard as he is actually a bright we spud and you know that because of the environment he is in he really does not have much chance my mil is actually sick because of it god love her
I think in this instance you would not think it was a skin condition or you were time wasting to call police/ambulance. I wouldn't just be pointing her out I'd be trying to stop her leaving before the ambulance arrived. I have had sunburn many times in the past (my own stupid fault mostly), and it bloody hurts, to have that degree of burns where you are blisteing in the sun that baby would have been in absolute agony, he was practically cooking in the sun. He was screaming in agony. For anyone not to have noticed they would have to be blind and deaf. If I had done nothing I would feel so ashamed and so guilty.
Wow, that's a very good and important question... I would for sure intervene and I dont care what the consequences were, the most important thing is the children's safety and happiness! Unfortunatly you dont need any license to be a parent and some parents are so stupid and irresponisble and if they have children just for the sake of having children and neglect them or abuse them- action should be taken right away!!!
I haven't read all the responses, but I would intervene if I thought a child's safety was at risk.
I have to admit I used to have a horrible woman who lived next door to me who had a 3 year old girl. The woman had people in her house all hours getting drunk and I used to hear the little girl whimpering in the bedroom and her mum couldn't hear her as she was so p**sed up. I reported her to Social Services and I am glad I did.
Replies
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/05/25/shoppers-ignore-man-as-he-dies-115875-22283400/
This guy died after collapsing outside shops ad being ignored for 2 hours for fears that he was drunk.
for me personally, a past experience of stepping in and trying to do the right thing led to me getting a broken nose in the middle of woolworths and not one person stepped in to help me. I was only 16 and me and my younger sister were getting some passport pics taken. The queue was massive but i'm a patient person, so joined it and waited my turn. Behind me was some (sorry but i am bitter) tramp of a girl with a young child and what I could only guess to be her mother effing and blinding about the queue and people taking their time.
My little sister got in the booth and as it was her first time, kept asking me questions and asking me what I thought of the pics that were taken. This family behind me were relentless and started calling my sister names. I politely turned around and said "do you mind, shes not used one before, everyone has had to queue we;re nearly done".....oh well that didn't go down lightly....
After I got out and waited for my pics, she lunged at me, punched me in the face and told me she was going to kill me when i got outside along with lots of swearing.
Not ONE person stepped in, I called the police myself (my dad ) and she kept threatening all sorts. My poor little sister was in bits.
So, (sorry went o/t there) I swore i'd never intervene again as no-one helped me out and I blatantly needed it.
However, I would prob alert the lifeguard in the case of the sunburnt baby or call the police if I saw trouble like I experienced
Personally it would really depend on the mood I was in and who I was with. I can easily be persuaded to step in to things like that. So if I was with baby mum friends and no one had the guts, I would do it. If I was on my own maybe not. However as I said it depends on my mood.....I could be prone to do something and equally I could bury my head in the sand.
However, i think if we're getting on to the subject in some of the posts of intervening when you believe that people are maybe violent etc etc in my opinion (and its no reflection on anyone who might want to intervene) I think it's really shaky ground. Unless you have absolute proof i absolutely disagree with interfering in peoples lives when you have little or no idea of what is actually going on. So much damage can be done by stepping in when it isn't necessary. I do understand though that in the cases of Victoria Climbie and so many others maybe if someone had highlighted it earlier who knows, but people probably didn't because they didn't have the full story?
What I will say is that when I was younger a teacher of my little sister alerted social services about my family. Briefly my sister had been making teeth marks on her arm, who knows why, for fun, maybe to see what happened. A teacher saw it and asked my sister if my dad ever bit her???? Bizarre I know, my sister being young said that yes, when play fighting my dad would bite her, meaning in the fake way that I bite my baby daughter, not actually biting! Bizarre as all that sounds this teacher caused my family great upset by interfering and "leading" my sister in what she said, social services came to the house and were happy that there was nothing wrong but they could so easily have taken what my very young sister said in the wrong way.
And so, I personally would never interfere unless I had some sort of proof of what was happening. In the case of children being in a violent household, sad as it is, this is the case in a million families across the country of all social classes and whilst it is sad it isn't an indication of harm to the child.
PCSOs on the other hand are on the look out for such things...
Not noticing is not really a great excuse, but probably quite true for the majority of people on the beach at the time...
.just wanted to add that in the case of where i called SS, i did know what was going on as it was my sister, her husband and their kids so i did have all the proof to intervene, and like i said, things got a lot worse and now on the at risk register, so i'm glad i intervened, and in all honesty, i owuld prefer to intervene even on a suspicion and be wrong, than to not intervene and things go horribly wrong, particulalry where the safety of children is at question.
I also think its possible a step too far saying that its border line child abuse..it really pisses me off that everyone reckons that they care about their babies sooo much that they would never let them get harmed...mistakes are made you know, your not all perfect....i know it sounds stupid, but maybe the mum was just a bit irresponsible and didnt quite realise that her baby was geting burnt, maybe she didnt realise that she needed to reapply more regularly?? no-one on here knows this woman and i think its so wrong that everybody is on their high horse saying how awful it is..my friend text me only the other day saying she felt awful but her baby had a bit of sunburn on his arm, and he's only 3-4 months...she certainly didnt do it on bloody purpose!
Fair point. My aunt was telling me just the other day that she 'let' my cousin get sunburned when he was a baby. Granted, it was a good 20+ years ago when perhaps education about sun damage wasn't quite so prevalent but it happened and she was telling me how mortified she felt.
Stories like this will always cause emotion as it involves a child. But it is beyond irresponsble to leave your child with 40% burns and blisters when a simple case of suncream/hat/UV outfit would have done that baby wonders.
xx
Accidents DO happen - but when they happen to this magnitude it indicates a level of neglect that can't be dismissed.
I don't want anyone to feel that I am being judgemental but this is something that I feel very strongly about!
I would say yes, however, its one of those situations where you don't know how you would react until you are faced with it.
I recently came across some awful abuse stories of 2 year olds that resulted in their death. Stories like Riley Ann Sawyers, kelsey briggs and baby Brianna Lopez. I would like to think that if I knew of anything like this going on then I would have intervened. I spent a sleepless night after reading these sad stories. It breaks my heart to think how people could hurt their own child or, allow someone else to.
If I had spotted this baby on the beach my initial reaction is to say that yes I would have approached to mum. I would have offered her some suncream or advice in a nice way. IF she had not reacted then I would have called the police.
I have stepped in before when I hve seen children been hurt. I have called SS before and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Its a sad, sick world that we live in.
d x
Re SS yes I would intervene although it must be awful to be accused in the wrong and be investigated if you are innocent then you have nothing to worry about whereas if you are right you could be saving a childs life. I think a lot of people dont ring (in Norn Iron) any way is because of how little they can do.
Take my nephew for EG: me and OH come from good families all work pay our own way non violent, you know NORMAL PEOPLE LOL my BIL had a one night stand with a girl and got her pregnant, she is from an awful family, she was only 18 when she had the baby and her mum couldn't pick her up from the hospital as she was at an all night party taking coke (WTF) so my MIL had to go and buy the girl clothes to come out of the hospital etc and took her home to her house for that day and then she went to her mums the next.
From day 1 HV reported to SS as her house was stinking covered in beer cans etc, my BIL has continously fought for custody (they have joint and he has wee man half of the time) we used to pick him up and he would be stinking, I mean dirt and smelly from he was only a few onths old, he got this condition all over his body which is caused by not cleaning the baby, something boils its called, another time I was with my BIL when we picked him up and his nappy was so full of pee it looked like he hadn't been changed in 2 days and his wee bum was so raw he had to go to the drs. Hes 4 now an din that time has witnessed violence between her and her partner, she has parties at the house, spends all her 'brew' money on coke, even met a guy on the internet and had him back to theirs when my nephew was there.
More recently she is with a new guy who she has reported 4 times for violence (might I point out on one of these occasion SHE broke his jaw and on another her hands were covered in his blood as she was punching him, whil I dont condone any violence she is the aggrivator (all these witnessed by my nephew, and recently her oh tried to choke her with a plastic bag (oh and she s now 10 weeks pregnant to him)
All of us my bil, mil and myself have contacted ss on her, they had meetings with a sw as recent as last week and she said to bil that although it is evident she is a crap mum there isn't enough to remove my nephew from her care WTF??!!!! They did say if my bil wants to go to court again they will back him to go for full custody.
My nephew is a lovely child but he swears and is violent ins school and god love the wee man its really not his fault ssssssoooooooo even when reports are made it does not always make a difference .
(sorry for the rant it shows us all too how a one night stand can change your life our hearts our broken over our wee nephew)
To think she is preg again is just madness. IMO the system seems to fail so many kids. Look at babyP. He was on the at risk register but still was beaten every day of his little life.
I hope your brother can get full custody.
d x
If I had seen the baby arrive and could be certain he had perfect skin to start with (ie that the marks were def burns), then I like to think I would intervene in some way, although I'd be in the "call someone" camp rather than do it directly.
But you know how it is - you look for get-out clauses in a potentially confrontational situation like that (not saying I'm proud of that). I'd think, maybe it's eczema and the mother has been advised to get sunshine on his skin. Perhaps he does have suncream on and it's an allergic reaction. Especially if I was just passing by as opposed to seeing the whole thing unfold.
I think I'd even create obstacles if I DID decide something needed to be done, I'm ashamed to say. I'd think - in a situation like this, who would I call? The police? An ambulance? - would I then have to point out the baby in question on front of everyone? and anyway isn't the police/an ambulance a bit extreme? The RSPCC? - do they do call-outs for sunburn? Genuinely, I would not know who to call - I would think I was time-wasting.
Perhaps I want to give people the benefit of the doubt - or perhaps I'm spineless, not sure.
cheers dd it is hard as he is actually a bright we spud and you know that because of the environment he is in he really does not have much chance my mil is actually sick because of it god love her
I have had sunburn many times in the past (my own stupid fault mostly), and it bloody hurts, to have that degree of burns where you are blisteing in the sun that baby would have been in absolute agony, he was practically cooking in the sun. He was screaming in agony. For anyone not to have noticed they would have to be blind and deaf. If I had done nothing I would feel so ashamed and so guilty.
Unfortunatly you dont need any license to be a parent and some parents are so stupid and irresponisble and if they have children just for the sake of having children and neglect them or abuse them- action should be taken right away!!!
B the best mom U can B!!http://newborn-babies.net
[Modified by: idita on May 26, 2010 11:04 PM]
I have to admit I used to have a horrible woman who lived next door to me who had a 3 year old girl. The woman had people in her house all hours getting drunk and I used to hear the little girl whimpering in the bedroom and her mum couldn't hear her as she was so p**sed up. I reported her to Social Services and I am glad I did.
H x