Your second reply wasn't showing when I posted....If you have shown a number of ways you settle him then maybe the nursery have been lazy then! Not nice if he looked like he had been really upset! There is a difference between whining and really crying! I hope you get to the bottom of it and he settles more easily x
Lillykit deffo have a word, you need to feel comfortable leaving him there. Things need to be cleared up or you'll be left worried and wondering exactly how he was left and for how long. He wasn't sick though... which like you say is what happens if he's left to cry when he's with you, and surely this suggests it perhaps wasn't too long?
Really don't want to scare or upset anybody, but if for example, one nursery staff member was looking after 3 babies, and all 3 of those parents said "don't leave my such and such to cry" they wouldnt be able to rock and sush 3 different babies to sleep. I completely appreciate you might want to give them a time limit of say 2-3mins of crying or what have you, but it is VERY unreasonable to expect nursery staff to be as devoted completely to your individual child when if this is whatt really went on in nurseries it would be to the detrement to other children there. Staff need to divide their arms/time to numerous children. Nursery staff do have to be sensitive to your preferences as a parent, but if they were to do things with your LO 100% as you did with them at home this is just completely unreasonable in a nursery setting. A parent may for example rock their child for 15mins for them to fall asleep... now... you can mention this to the nursery staff, but I think it's unfair to expect them to carry this out with your child. It sometimes cannot be done exactly as it is at home.
Obviously hun in your case, get everything clarified and get your feelings off your chest, but if it was literally 3mins or so and he got a really good sleep out of it, I don't think you can shoot them down. Staff are usually very very well trained and experienced and whilst they do love the children and care for them, they can detatch themselves ever so slightly in a way that us mummies cannot. And if they see that it would be of more benefit for a LO to cry for a few mins then get a good rest, and for that staff member to then be free to tend to another child... rather than spend a much longer period of time fussing over and over tired child who simply needs a good sleep - then they are in a way, within their rights to do this. I do trust that they'd use their better judgement, always check on your child and I'm sure they'd be popping in and out and would get him up if he wasn't settling.
I can see why you are upset. Even if you had not used the words controlled crying. The thought of your lo being distressed, and someone not going to them as quickly as you would is upsetting.
We specifically asked about sleeping when in the baby room, on the tour of the nursery we chose. Luckily they have the 1:3 ratio, and allow the babies to nap when they want to. They also didn't bat an eye when in a follow up visit, I said currently James is rocked to sleep for naps.
At the end of the day you're the parent, you make the 'rules' for your lo. I would try to go in calmly to discuss the problem. Written info can be misinterpreted, or individual's views of situations vary.
Hey Princess cheers for the clarification xx my class was a wide variety of nurseries and older kids as well as younger an dof course when I talk about my ds1 he is 6 although ds2 will be going but I think childminding is a different environment altogether.
hope you get it sorted chick wouldn't be happy if his wee eyes were all red fron crying I think too if you have listed sll the stuff that you want them to do snd they agreed they are very much so in the wrong xx
I am with linziMc on this. Sorry but I really do not feel it is a nursery nurses job to rock little ones to sleep.
Sorry had to return to say WTF!!!! What is their job then? To let them cry???? They're paid and should do exactly what they're paid for, to care for other peoples children.
Oh no, this is my biggest fear about putting Toby in nursery when I go back to work (which I am putting off for as long as possible). Like Princess87 says, I can handle them doing pretty much anything else differently to me but the thought of my little man crying for his mummy and I'm not there - it just breaks my heart.
When I put my rational, sensible non-mummy hat on, I have to accept that if I choose nursery over a nanny then my child isn't going to get one on one attention ALL the time (although obviously I expect him to get it as much as possible). And as another poster said, nobody is ever going to care for our children the way that we do.
However, nurseries are supposed to accommodate parents' wishes as far as possible, so I would def have a chat with them. I think you need to clarify what they mean by "crying" and "a few mins". If it's a slight whinge/grizzle for 2 mins and then he fell into a deep sleep, not such a worry. But if he was screaming for 10 minutes I would be very, very upset. I think it's the degree of distress that needs to be monitored rather than the length of time - I don't believe in cc either but I don't go into my LO every time he makes the slightest noise, I wait until he's actually crying or sounds distressed in any way (as opposed to just calling out for me to come back in at which point he laughs at me!).
I will def be interrogating prospective nurseries about this now!!!
dollywotsit - that is the reality. Nursery staff are not one on one care providers, and sometimes, yes, your child might cry for a couple of minutes or so. They are paid to provide care for your child and make sure no harm comes to them, not to follow your rules to a 'T'. In this situation, no harm what so ever came to the LO in question.
If you don't want this, and don't like this, use a nanny, not a nursery. You are paying them to care for your child yes, but how is putting a tired child down for a nap - not caring for them? If the staff member feels the child can self settle then they may well give them oppertunity to do this. If they have 3 babies to get down for a nap - imagine if that one staff member had to spend half an hour going back and forth between them all patting or rocking them, when the reality is, a couple of minute cry and they would nod off on their own... I don't mean lillykit personally when I say this, but I think some parents have a very dillusional veiw of how nurseries operate and why they must operate in that way.
I don't see how people think it's physically possible for nursery staff to be able to spend ages fussing/rocking/cooing over a baby who JUST needs to sleep.
I DONT think nurseries should perform controlled crying. But in this instance, it was a few minutes of tears and then LO fell asleep. not a big deal really when you look at the big picture. It was not controlled crying, it was allowing a child who was tired to settle himself to sleep. Which he did, which is very good of him. Perhaps next time there won't be any tears if he's put down in the cot awake?
God id be fuming. im so sorry youve had to deal with this. I had a very short go of CC at home when nights were a nightmare! it was awful, felt so cruel and it upset both us and her and made this much worse. Personally i feel that if we left her crying and popping in and out she would probably eventually go to sleep but it would be out of exhaustion and just giving up. There is no way i want my baby going to sleep like that, but each to there own, every baby and parent is differnet.
I agree with linziMc too. Doesn't sound like cc to me - if it had been, from what the OP says then he would have been sick and you would have known that he was left to get distressed. As it was he cried for a couple of minutes and then had a nice nap - where's the harm? babies cry. It's distressing, but can't always be helped.
I work as a childminder, and at the most 'only' have 3 kids to look after. Now, I'm good at my job and have never had any complaints and can generally keep three kids happy at one time, but it's unrealistic to expect that i'll never have to leave one child crying for a short period while i deal with another. As a responsible carer, I have to judge which child needs the most attention at any one time which has meant that i've had to leave a crying child briefly to deal with another who was in more distress - of the many things that cause children to cry, having a baby crying because he's tired, and you've just put him down for a nap is low priority compared to lots of other things I might have to be dealing with at the same time (a dirty nappy, a teething baby, a scratched knee etc). Even if I agreed with rocking a baby to sleep,if that's your preference then fine, but I simply don't have the time to do that. With the best will in the world, I physically can't be in two places at once and so it is with nursery staff.
That's without going into a debate about whether or not it's ok to leave a baby to self settle. Now speaking as a mother rather than a child care professional, I used to go immediately to my ds whenever he cried - I only had him to care for so it was possible to do this.(Big mistake by the way, totally made a rod for my own back in doing that, but i've learnt from that particular mistake). My next baby is due next month and i'm under no illusions that i will have to leave him to cry sometimes while i deal with his big brother. I don't believe this will cause him any harm and unless i manage to clone myself then it's inevitable.
You are absolutely within your rights to not want your child to be left to cry for more than a minute if that's your preference, but you cannot realistically expect any nursery/childminder to be able to follow this to the letter. If you want your child to have true one to one, constant attention, then a nursery or childminder is not the solution for you and you might be happier looking into a nanny option.
I dont have this problem as dd (22 months) doesn't nap at nursery but when ever i drop her off there are always staff sat rocking or patting little ones to sleep.... so yes if thats the way you asked for it to be done then it should be done that way!
I dont think a few minutes crying is the same as cc though.. even my little ds (4 weeks) has to have a little cry to get himself to sleep weather i am cuddling him or not, its just his way and doesn't harm him.
Hope you manage to sort it out. Its horrible not really knowing what goes on isn't it xx
I agree with those of you have said that nurseries can NOT devote their time to one child - how can they with 1 staff having 3 children to look after?
BUT at the same time... when we had a few problems with Toby being poorly and not sleeping well there, they kept making comments about how grumpy he was and it not being like him like they were annoyed that the "little boy who is always so happy and never makes a fuss" began to make a fuss! Yet there was one little boy who took SIX months to settle into nursery. He would cry for ages when he was dropped off and then cry whenever the door opened to the baby room, for meals, nappy changes, parents collecting etc. so you can imagine how much time they spent consoling him.
It made me a little cross - does that make sense why?!?!? Just that they had the cheek to make a comment about Tobes when he is always SO good.
I would be ok with nursery letting Tobes cry for a few minutes before he drops off (although not an issue as he goes down without a fight 95% of the time thankfully) but I would NOT be ok with them attempting CC. Regardless or not of whether I agree with CC (for the record, I do if the parents feel its right for their child) - I just don't feel its something that should be done in nursery. My definition of a "few" minutes, is 2-3mins.
Don't jump in to a decision until you've got a much clearer picture! good luck xxxxxxxxx
My definition of a "few" minutes is no more than 3, but up to 5 would be ok if it's clear baby is just having a bit of a tired grizzle before dropping off (which I think most probably do).
From what was written on your sheet I'd check with them how long baby was left before letting myself get angry.
Mrs C06 - I think you have explained it from the childcare perspective perfectly.
Hun This isnt controlled crying . However I know our nursery did ask all these things before H started. I think I have just always assumed there will be a point at nursery when another child has hurt him self or something and ds is having a cry for a less urgent reason and that he wouldnt get lifted automatically. Whilst I dont want him crying un-necessarily ( and the nursery staff are fab and really dont leave the los crying ) I have to accept by choosing a nursery over a nanny , this will on occassion happen.
I dont think a knee jerk reaction like pulling lo out of nursery is necessary. Try and put it into persepective. As your lo wasnt sick it really would suggesat he just had a short little cry. Is this really something to get this upset over? I personally dont think so. If the had left him howling and he threw up.... well then I would know there is something really wrong. Clearly you dont want it to get to this stage so as the other ladies have said - ask them what their sleep policy is. xx
I worked in a nursery 6 years ago as holiday cover while I was on uni summer hols.
This nursery's policy was NOT to allow children to sit on your knee, cuddle them or rock them to sleep. It wasn't seen as fair on other children who you were meant to be looking after.
I found this VERY hard as my usual response to a crying child would be to cuddle and comfort them. However at this nursery we had special rocking chairs that they slept in, so we'd often be rocking 3 at once!
My 2 boys always cry for 1-2mins when self settling to sleep. We did do cc with ds1 and it worked, however ds2 made himself very sick, so we've never done it.
Talk to staff hun, check their policies and if you don't agree with how your baby is being looked after take him out. I'd never use a nursery having worked in a couple. Most are ok, but the now cuddling thing really got to me, I prefer child minders.
Well thats a wide range of opinions, the fact that Tylers voice is hoarse today tells me that it wasn't just a quick cry and the fact his eyes were swollen.
When we looked at the nursery, we did explain that he can be a nightmare to get to sleep and can need some help. They said this wasn't a problem as they had one baby who had to be rocked in a car seat until they fell asleep. They assured me on everything about naps, as I know how hard it can be to get him to sleep. When i picked him up last week all 3 babies were crying and she said none of them would nap but they had extra girls in with them who were keeping them busy. They are fab nursery and he does love it there, this is the only issue I have had with them about it, I was so mad yesterday as he was obviously been crying for a while due to his eyes being swollen. I know i may have made a rod for my own back, but its our preference on how he gets to sleep, he's teething so needs the extra comfort. He can get himself to sleep with very little help sometimes, but others he needs the extra comfort, he's never been a good sleeper or napper.
Thank you for all your opinions, its a trust thing more than anything.
I had a similar and yet opposite problem when Abby first started nursery. ? I had made it quite clear that I wanted Abby to be put down to sleep in a quiet room on her own (without adults) and if she cried for a couple of minutes then that was fine as she often has a grizzle as she settles off. However I found out that they were rocking her to sleep in her car seat and then letting her sleep in it. This went totally against what we do at home and I wasn't happy with her sleeping in a car seat or baby bouncer - it's just not good for her back. However they were very willing to talk about it. They couldn't let her cry in the cot if other babies were in there for obvious reasons and as she settled in she started to go down without problems. When she moved to the next room up she had issues again settling on a mat with the others but has improved. She has never slept as well at nursery as she does at home just because she prefers a quiet room on her own but she has adapted to the various situations around her.
Over all I would say that she has benefitted from a range of different sleeping and childcare arrangements as she is now much more confident with a variety of people and situations. However i remember how upsetting it was at first, especially when you have put your heart and soul into their happiness.
I had a similar and yet opposite problem when Abby first started nursery. ? I had made it quite clear that I wanted Abby to be put down to sleep in a quiet room on her own (without adults) and if she cried for a couple of minutes then that was fine as she often has a grizzle as she settles off. However I found out that they were rocking her to sleep in her car seat and then letting her sleep in it. This went totally against what we do at home and I wasn't happy with her sleeping in a car seat or baby bouncer - it's just not good for her back. H xx i totally argee with this. i would be really annoyed if someone started rocking my baby to sleep as that would create the need for her to be rocked to sleep at home and we dont do this. i would also go mad and remove the baby if they left her in a car seat to sleep. dd is only ever in her car seat in theca. i dislike car seatson pram frmaes for the back development issue and breathing, soi always put her flat to sleep. i would expect the nurser to be using what is considered good practice for nap times. a baby needs to learn to sleep on their own or they will never become a good sleeper. at some point the issue needs to be addressed.
Replies
Really don't want to scare or upset anybody, but if for example, one nursery staff member was looking after 3 babies, and all 3 of those parents said "don't leave my such and such to cry" they wouldnt be able to rock and sush 3 different babies to sleep. I completely appreciate you might want to give them a time limit of say 2-3mins of crying or what have you, but it is VERY unreasonable to expect nursery staff to be as devoted completely to your individual child when if this is whatt really went on in nurseries it would be to the detrement to other children there. Staff need to divide their arms/time to numerous children. Nursery staff do have to be sensitive to your preferences as a parent, but if they were to do things with your LO 100% as you did with them at home this is just completely unreasonable in a nursery setting. A parent may for example rock their child for 15mins for them to fall asleep... now... you can mention this to the nursery staff, but I think it's unfair to expect them to carry this out with your child. It sometimes cannot be done exactly as it is at home.
Obviously hun in your case, get everything clarified and get your feelings off your chest, but if it was literally 3mins or so and he got a really good sleep out of it, I don't think you can shoot them down. Staff are usually very very well trained and experienced and whilst they do love the children and care for them, they can detatch themselves ever so slightly in a way that us mummies cannot. And if they see that it would be of more benefit for a LO to cry for a few mins then get a good rest, and for that staff member to then be free to tend to another child... rather than spend a much longer period of time fussing over and over tired child who simply needs a good sleep - then they are in a way, within their rights to do this. I do trust that they'd use their better judgement, always check on your child and I'm sure they'd be popping in and out and would get him up if he wasn't settling.
xxx
We specifically asked about sleeping when in the baby room, on the tour of the nursery we chose. Luckily they have the 1:3 ratio, and allow the babies to nap when they want to. They also didn't bat an eye when in a follow up visit, I said currently James is rocked to sleep for naps.
At the end of the day you're the parent, you make the 'rules' for your lo. I would try to go in calmly to discuss the problem. Written info can be misinterpreted, or individual's views of situations vary.
Hope it gets sorted to your satisfaction. xx
hope you get it sorted chick wouldn't be happy if his wee eyes were all red fron crying
Sorry had to return to say WTF!!!! What is their job then? To let them cry???? They're paid and should do exactly what they're paid for, to care for other peoples children.
When I put my rational, sensible non-mummy hat on, I have to accept that if I choose nursery over a nanny then my child isn't going to get one on one attention ALL the time (although obviously I expect him to get it as much as possible). And as another poster said, nobody is ever going to care for our children the way that we do.
However, nurseries are supposed to accommodate parents' wishes as far as possible, so I would def have a chat with them. I think you need to clarify what they mean by "crying" and "a few mins". If it's a slight whinge/grizzle for 2 mins and then he fell into a deep sleep, not such a worry. But if he was screaming for 10 minutes I would be very, very upset. I think it's the degree of distress that needs to be monitored rather than the length of time - I don't believe in cc either but I don't go into my LO every time he makes the slightest noise, I wait until he's actually crying or sounds distressed in any way (as opposed to just calling out for me to come back in at which point he laughs at me!).
I will def be interrogating prospective nurseries about this now!!!
Good luck with whatever happens
If you don't want this, and don't like this, use a nanny, not a nursery. You are paying them to care for your child yes, but how is putting a tired child down for a nap - not caring for them? If the staff member feels the child can self settle then they may well give them oppertunity to do this. If they have 3 babies to get down for a nap - imagine if that one staff member had to spend half an hour going back and forth between them all patting or rocking them, when the reality is, a couple of minute cry and they would nod off on their own... I don't mean lillykit personally when I say this, but I think some parents have a very dillusional veiw of how nurseries operate and why they must operate in that way.
I don't see how people think it's physically possible for nursery staff to be able to spend ages fussing/rocking/cooing over a baby who JUST needs to sleep.
I DONT think nurseries should perform controlled crying. But in this instance, it was a few minutes of tears and then LO fell asleep. not a big deal really when you look at the big picture. It was not controlled crying, it was allowing a child who was tired to settle himself to sleep. Which he did, which is very good of him. Perhaps next time there won't be any tears if he's put down in the cot awake?
Hope you get it sorted Sarah.
Em x
I work as a childminder, and at the most 'only' have 3 kids to look after. Now, I'm good at my job and have never had any complaints and can generally keep three kids happy at one time, but it's unrealistic to expect that i'll never have to leave one child crying for a short period while i deal with another. As a responsible carer, I have to judge which child needs the most attention at any one time which has meant that i've had to leave a crying child briefly to deal with another who was in more distress - of the many things that cause children to cry, having a baby crying because he's tired, and you've just put him down for a nap is low priority compared to lots of other things I might have to be dealing with at the same time (a dirty nappy, a teething baby, a scratched knee etc). Even if I agreed with rocking a baby to sleep,if that's your preference then fine, but I simply don't have the time to do that.
With the best will in the world, I physically can't be in two places at once and so it is with nursery staff.
That's without going into a debate about whether or not it's ok to leave a baby to self settle.
Now speaking as a mother rather than a child care professional, I used to go immediately to my ds whenever he cried - I only had him to care for so it was possible to do this.(Big mistake by the way, totally made a rod for my own back in doing that, but i've learnt from that particular mistake). My next baby is due next month and i'm under no illusions that i will have to leave him to cry sometimes while i deal with his big brother. I don't believe this will cause him any harm and unless i manage to clone myself then it's inevitable.
You are absolutely within your rights to not want your child to be left to cry for more than a minute if that's your preference, but you cannot realistically expect any nursery/childminder to be able to follow this to the letter. If you want your child to have true one to one, constant attention, then a nursery or childminder is not the solution for you and you might be happier looking into a nanny option.
I dont think a few minutes crying is the same as cc though.. even my little ds (4 weeks) has to have a little cry to get himself to sleep weather i am cuddling him or not, its just his way and doesn't harm him.
Hope you manage to sort it out. Its horrible not really knowing what goes on isn't it xx
I agree with those of you have said that nurseries can NOT devote their time to one child - how can they with 1 staff having 3 children to look after?
BUT at the same time... when we had a few problems with Toby being poorly and not sleeping well there, they kept making comments about how grumpy he was and it not being like him like they were annoyed that the "little boy who is always so happy and never makes a fuss" began to make a fuss! Yet there was one little boy who took SIX months to settle into nursery. He would cry for ages when he was dropped off and then cry whenever the door opened to the baby room, for meals, nappy changes, parents collecting etc. so you can imagine how much time they spent consoling him.
It made me a little cross - does that make sense why?!?!? Just that they had the cheek to make a comment about Tobes when he is always SO good.
I would be ok with nursery letting Tobes cry for a few minutes before he drops off (although not an issue as he goes down without a fight 95% of the time thankfully) but I would NOT be ok with them attempting CC. Regardless or not of whether I agree with CC (for the record, I do if the parents feel its right for their child) - I just don't feel its something that should be done in nursery. My definition of a "few" minutes, is 2-3mins.
Don't jump in to a decision until you've got a much clearer picture! good luck xxxxxxxxx
From what was written on your sheet I'd check with them how long baby was left before letting myself get angry.
Hun This isnt controlled crying . However I know our nursery did ask all these things before H started. I think I have just always assumed there will be a point at nursery when another child has hurt him self or something and ds is having a cry for a less urgent reason and that he wouldnt get lifted automatically. Whilst I dont want him crying un-necessarily ( and the nursery staff are fab and really dont leave the los crying ) I have to accept by choosing a nursery over a nanny , this will on occassion happen.
I dont think a knee jerk reaction like pulling lo out of nursery is necessary. Try and put it into persepective. As your lo wasnt sick it really would suggesat he just had a short little cry. Is this really something to get this upset over? I personally dont think so. If the had left him howling and he threw up.... well then I would know there is something really wrong. Clearly you dont want it to get to this stage so as the other ladies have said - ask them what their sleep policy is. xx
This nursery's policy was NOT to allow children to sit on your knee, cuddle them or rock them to sleep. It wasn't seen as fair on other children who you were meant to be looking after.
I found this VERY hard as my usual response to a crying child would be to cuddle and comfort them. However at this nursery we had special rocking chairs that they slept in, so we'd often be rocking 3 at once!
My 2 boys always cry for 1-2mins when self settling to sleep. We did do cc with ds1 and it worked, however ds2 made himself very sick, so we've never done it.
Talk to staff hun, check their policies and if you don't agree with how your baby is being looked after take him out. I'd never use a nursery having worked in a couple. Most are ok, but the now cuddling thing really got to me, I prefer child minders.
xxx
Well thats a wide range of opinions, the fact that Tylers voice is hoarse today tells me that it wasn't just a quick cry and the fact his eyes were swollen.
When we looked at the nursery, we did explain that he can be a nightmare to get to sleep and can need some help. They said this wasn't a problem as they had one baby who had to be rocked in a car seat until they fell asleep. They assured me on everything about naps, as I know how hard it can be to get him to sleep.
When i picked him up last week all 3 babies were crying and she said none of them would nap but they had extra girls in with them who were keeping them busy.
They are fab nursery and he does love it there, this is the only issue I have had with them about it, I was so mad yesterday as he was obviously been crying for a while due to his eyes being swollen. I know i may have made a rod for my own back, but its our preference on how he gets to sleep, he's teething so needs the extra comfort. He can get himself to sleep with very little help sometimes, but others he needs the extra comfort, he's never been a good sleeper or napper.
Thank you for all your opinions, its a trust thing more than anything.
However they were very willing to talk about it. They couldn't let her cry in the cot if other babies were in there for obvious reasons and as she settled in she started to go down without problems. When she moved to the next room up she had issues again settling on a mat with the others but has improved. She has never slept as well at nursery as she does at home just because she prefers a quiet room on her own but she has adapted to the various situations around her.
Over all I would say that she has benefitted from a range of different sleeping and childcare arrangements as she is now much more confident with a variety of people and situations. However i remember how upsetting it was at first, especially when you have put your heart and soul into their happiness.
H xx
H xx
i totally argee with this. i would be really annoyed if someone started rocking my baby to sleep as that would create the need for her to be rocked to sleep at home and we dont do this. i would also go mad and remove the baby if they left her in a car seat to sleep. dd is only ever in her car seat in theca. i dislike car seatson pram frmaes for the back development issue and breathing, soi always put her flat to sleep. i would expect the nurser to be using what is considered good practice for nap times. a baby needs to learn to sleep on their own or they will never become a good sleeper. at some point the issue needs to be addressed.