thats nurserys for you they might say yes we'll do it this way or that way cause they want your buissness. i have worked in nurserys with fanstic ofsted reports.it easy to put a good show on for 2 days while ofsted are there or while parents look round but the mintue everyones gone back to normal. if its happened once it will happen again only next time i would be surprised if they wrote it in his book
[Modified by: hollypolly on July 30, 2010 08:52 PM]
Don't usually comment on other people's negative posts etc, but hollypolly, I think your post is incredibly unhelpful and misinformed. I work in education and in my experience, you can not put a 'show' on for the 2 or 3 days that Ofsted are in,. I'm not going to get into a big debate, but that post really bugged me.
It may be the case in some childcare settings but certainly not in all so that is rather unfair. You may be lucky enough to be a stay at home mum but for some of us, that isn't an option so childcare is a necessity and your comments will probably have made some mums that are already struggling with the guilt of having to return to work feel even worse. If the op has lost faith in her nursery then she should move her child to a different setting but be careful not to have too unrealistic expectations - any childcare provider that cares for more than one child will have to make a decision at some point on which child needs immediate attention and which will have to be left to cry for a minute or two. If this is not acceptable to you then a private nanny may be your only option.
Once again thanks of your responses, he is only in nursery 3 days a week as am working part-time until december. There's been a few posts that have wound me up abit to be honest, yes I rock my baby to sleep when he needs the extra comfort, this is my choice and I dont believe it will do Ty any harm. Sometimes, especially when he's ill he needs me so of course i'm here for him. The post about the nursery putting on a show, did flash through my mind. but as he usually comes home very happy i have no worries there. this wasn't a post to start a debate on cc, for me, leaving him to cry knowingly for 'minutes' when you are not in the room is the same as cc sorry if no one agrees.
where i've worked the babies children were always well looked and safe but the nurserys did it their way the babies/toddlers had to fit into the routine not the other way round.
[Modified by: hollypolly on July 31, 2010 07:04 AM]
Very difficult one. My ds is 2 and there's no chance in hell he'd go to sleep on a mat with other children. The very idea makes me LOL!!! He has to be rocked to sleep in a pushchair sometimes he'll fall asleep on sofa in front of the TV. At bedtime you have to sing Michael Buble & Robbie Williams songs......However...I wouldn't expect this from nursery staff, as you say the ratio is 1 to 3 if you have 3 kids to watch I definitely wouldnt expect them to spend 10 mins rocking my DS to sleep.
If you had insisted when you first took your ds to nursery that they were never to let him cry, then I can certainly understand your anger but if they didn't know, then I really don't think 5-10 mins of crying is anything neglectful on the nursery's part - but that's just my opinion and I have strong opinions on other things. Like for me, I wouldn't be angry unless he was left 10-15 mins as I think thats a long time. But, I would be angry if they fed him sweets every day and lied about it!! So I get where you're coming from!
I am lucky enough that mil has my lo when I work as this post has made me realise my ds has been way too pampered for nursery, haha.
I agree a private nanny might be the best option. I can totally understand you not trusting nursery after this! At the end of the day your beliefs should be followed as he's your child.
xxxxx
[Modified by: young_mum_gone_mad. on July 31, 2010 08:06 AM]
Again from the childcare perspective. Obviously every mother has her own routine, her own way of doing things, and I'm sure the majority of nurseries follow these instructions as far as they are able. But could any of you honestly say that you could deal with 3 separate children, all with separate routines and preferred methods of doing things, all at the same time without having to compromise some of the time? Very unrealistic. Of course a nursery should try to accommodate your preferences when practical, but the point is, it's not always practical and you have to compromise and fit in with the way the nursery is run. And again, if you don't like it, then it's not the right childcare option for your child, whether this or any nursery because in this aspect they are all the same.
hi there i have to reply ....i work in a nursery ...a very very good nursery too ,we do not put on any shows for ofsted ,infact the inspector regulary drops in for one thing or another and we have the best ofsted report within 25 miles ....secondly the ratio is 1:3 for babies ....i dont think leaving them to cry for a couple of minutes is bad however i do not think it is necessary to leave a baby cry if it is requested by parents that they are cuddled/rocked to sleep .....i would hate my ds or dd to have clearly been upset during their day at nursery however i just want to point out that generally nursery nurses (including myself) work exceptionally hard for minimum wage ,despite the parents paying quite a large fee for the nursery the staff wages are crap, if a parent has an issue in our nursery i would prefer they came and discussed it and see if there is a genuine reason than put other parents off by putting it all over the internet ...if you are happy with the rest of the care then perhaps all u needed to do was discuss it with them ...also just to add children are soooo different when not with mum or dad ....my ds would NEVER sleep in a cot for me as a baby ,at nursery he apparently slept soundly in a cot after a little moan (i didnt work there then)he also ate all his meals which he didnt do for me and apparently played on his own without constant adult attention which he also never did for me ......i truly believe that a mummy (and daddy) should be as happy as baby/child when leaving them at nursery and that they should always feel they can discuss issues with staff but i also think we should remember that we are all human and we can all make small mistakes at work as long as their rectified big hugs to the op i hope u feel happier now xxxxxxxxx
sarah - you are doing nothing wrong by rocking him to sleep - on the few occasions when toby has fallen asleep on me i have relished it and even though he is a loving little boy i think he would have been more cuddly had i rocked him a little bit more - but i was so blinkered in getting him to self settle - it was the right choice for us to do it that way but just sometimes i would love to cuddle him to sleep!
hope it goes ok on tuesday - get it all out in the open and hopefully it will work out well - if he comes home happy then that shows he enjpoys it - i think toby would rather me leave him at the childminders sometimes!
If you want to rock your child to sleep thats fine - completely your choice. The question here though, is whether it is reasonable to expect your child to always be rocked to sleep at nursery, where staff have other children to watch. Why should they rock a child to sleep for 5-10mins, when that child CAN and WILL self settle after a bit of a cry for 3mins? What harm is the child realistically coming to? Why create a problem of a child who can't self settle... when the reality is he CAN do it?
At home, do as you prefer with your child but i think it's obsurd to expect nursery staff to cradle children to sleep all of the time. Sometimes it may be possible... but not always. They provide a duty of care but they are also there to teach children and help to develop children, and if helping him to settle himself to sleep is acheived then I don't see this as a negative thing.
If your LO had cried.. and after a few minutes a staff member went in and said "shhhhh go to sleep" and patted him... then left him yet again... and he cried yet again then yes, you could call this CC. A baby crying because they are tired is perfectly normal, perfectly reasonable and should be expected, and it's rediculous to think they shouldn't cry for a few mins!?
The post from hollypolly is a bit generalised. Evie's nursery is fantastic and I don't believe for one minute they put on any kind of show. they genuinely LOVE the children and the affection and attention they pay them if all very real.
Youngmumgonemad - When I first looked round Evie's nursery I though exactly the same as you about them sleeping on a mat together, I actually burst out laughing and said "good luck with that" and made a huge joke of it saying she wouldnt in a million years sleep for them. well - I wasn't laughing after her first trial when I went to pick her up and she was snoring her head off on said mat, surrounded by other soundly sleeping children!!
Although Sarah mentioned the words "controlled crying", which people obviously have their own strong views on, the book stated that Ty was left to cry "for a few minutes". It is unclear whether they went back to him (cc) or just left him to cry it out. It is also unclear until Sarah speaks with them, how long the few minutes was. Either way, as a follower of the Baby Whisperer methodology, your baby isnt left to CIO, or be subjected to CC so to leave your lo at nursery where this isnt followed despite your wishes is wrong IMO.
Sarah's it's your choice for Ty to not have cc used on him, nor to be left to CIO since this does cause him distress (ie being sick). Both methods are surrounded in controversy and many people are all for the methods - but many are not! If they have said they would respect that he sometimes needs help to go to sleep, then they should respect it.
Also, I have to say, there was a lot of assumption in some posts that Ty had a good sleep after he self settled. There is no mention of that, in fact Sarah you mentioned his eyes were all swollen when you collected him!
Hon, I hope your chat on Tuesday brings you some answers and a clearer understanding both ways between you and the nursery. There could be a simple explanation that isnt as distressful as you first thought. Big hugs hon xx
CC or even CIO for that matter are not the only methods available to teach a baby to self settle. There are other methods which are less controversial, like PUPD or simply remaining in the room with the child and talking to them in a calm reassuring voice to go to sleep or to even rest a hand on their body. If for example there are 2 unsettled babies at the same time and only 1 carer, the latter method could be used to soothe both!
Replies
[Modified by: hollypolly on July 30, 2010 08:52 PM]
Just what I thought! I was like "charming" LOL
Hope the OP is feeling better today xxxx
You may be lucky enough to be a stay at home mum but for some of us, that isn't an option so childcare is a necessity and your comments will probably have made some mums that are already struggling with the guilt of having to return to work feel even worse.
If the op has lost faith in her nursery then she should move her child to a different setting but be careful not to have too unrealistic expectations - any childcare provider that cares for more than one child will have to make a decision at some point on which child needs immediate attention and which will have to be left to cry for a minute or two. If this is not acceptable to you then a private nanny may be your only option.
Once again thanks of your responses, he is only in nursery 3 days a week as am working part-time until december. There's been a few posts that have wound me up abit to be honest, yes I rock my baby to sleep when he needs the extra comfort, this is my choice and I dont believe it will do Ty any harm. Sometimes, especially when he's ill he needs me so of course i'm here for him.
The post about the nursery putting on a show, did flash through my mind. but as he usually comes home very happy i have no worries there.
this wasn't a post to start a debate on cc, for me, leaving him to cry knowingly for 'minutes' when you are not in the room is the same as cc
sorry if no one agrees.
sarah
[Modified by: hollypolly on July 31, 2010 07:04 AM]
If you had insisted when you first took your ds to nursery that they were never to let him cry, then I can certainly understand your anger but if they didn't know, then I really don't think 5-10 mins of crying is anything neglectful on the nursery's part - but that's just my opinion and I have strong opinions on other things. Like for me, I wouldn't be angry unless he was left 10-15 mins as I think thats a long time. But, I would be angry if they fed him sweets every day and lied about it!! So I get where you're coming from!
I am lucky enough that mil has my lo when I work as this post has made me realise my ds has been way too pampered for nursery, haha.
I agree a private nanny might be the best option. I can totally understand you not trusting nursery after this! At the end of the day your beliefs should be followed as he's your child.
xxxxx
[Modified by: young_mum_gone_mad. on July 31, 2010 08:06 AM]
Obviously every mother has her own routine, her own way of doing things, and I'm sure the majority of nurseries follow these instructions as far as they are able.
But could any of you honestly say that you could deal with 3 separate children, all with separate routines and preferred methods of doing things, all at the same time without having to compromise some of the time?
Very unrealistic. Of course a nursery should try to accommodate your preferences when practical, but the point is, it's not always practical and you have to compromise and fit in with the way the nursery is run. And again, if you don't like it, then it's not the right childcare option for your child, whether this or any nursery because in this aspect they are all the same.
hope it goes ok on tuesday - get it all out in the open and hopefully it will work out well - if he comes home happy then that shows he enjpoys it - i think toby would rather me leave him at the childminders sometimes!
Have a good week x
At home, do as you prefer with your child but i think it's obsurd to expect nursery staff to cradle children to sleep all of the time. Sometimes it may be possible... but not always. They provide a duty of care but they are also there to teach children and help to develop children, and if helping him to settle himself to sleep is acheived then I don't see this as a negative thing.
If your LO had cried.. and after a few minutes a staff member went in and said "shhhhh go to sleep" and patted him... then left him yet again... and he cried yet again then yes, you could call this CC. A baby crying because they are tired is perfectly normal, perfectly reasonable and should be expected, and it's rediculous to think they shouldn't cry for a few mins!?
The post from hollypolly is a bit generalised. Evie's nursery is fantastic and I don't believe for one minute they put on any kind of show. they genuinely LOVE the children and the affection and attention they pay them if all very real.
Youngmumgonemad - When I first looked round Evie's nursery I though exactly the same as you about them sleeping on a mat together, I actually burst out laughing and said "good luck with that" and made a huge joke of it saying she wouldnt in a million years sleep for them. well - I wasn't laughing after her first trial when I went to pick her up and she was snoring her head off on said mat, surrounded by other soundly sleeping children!!
Sarah's it's your choice for Ty to not have cc used on him, nor to be left to CIO since this does cause him distress (ie being sick). Both methods are surrounded in controversy and many people are all for the methods - but many are not! If they have said they would respect that he sometimes needs help to go to sleep, then they should respect it.
Also, I have to say, there was a lot of assumption in some posts that Ty had a good sleep after he self settled. There is no mention of that, in fact Sarah you mentioned his eyes were all swollen when you collected him!
Hon, I hope your chat on Tuesday brings you some answers and a clearer understanding both ways between you and the nursery. There could be a simple explanation that isnt as distressful as you first thought. Big hugs hon xx