Ooh this has made me mad, i would have loved to breast feed my LO but he wouldnt latch one, i stopped in hospital 3 days so i could geta ll the help i needed but he still wouldnt do it so i had to make the difficult desicion to give up and bottle feed. This is just totally unreadl and the silly cow wants a slap.
Well Nikki on the hand it seems ok to call one person in the media an idiot and a twat and someone who needs a SLAP (Gisele) - but NOT ok to say another just might be able to put her baby before the risk of being papped in starbucks (DVO). Both opinions surely? Although my own did not involve any name-calling/threats of violence.
Me, I'd be papped! And I'd be proud. I've bf in Ikea, on the London Eye, on the train in countless cafes & restaurants, in the Tate, in parks, on the beach, in the Natural History Museum, Science Museum and many other places. And I don't give a fig who saw! You have one rule for one set of opinions and one rule for another. Why is it ok for a mum to get a slap for a pro-bf stance?
Gemmiebaby, I do take your point (and thanks Rosapenny & WowBaby), but don't ever think bf is plain-sailing just because everyone 'knows' breast is best. There is a mass of negativity out there that ff are possibly not aware of. Allow me to enlighten:
'Bf in public is gross' (hence DVO comments) - aka 'we don't want to see women flopping their boobs about in public) - Bf should be done in private, and you are a badly organised mother if you can't schedule this properly! Women used to manage in the olden days didn't they?
I have actually read: 'have you ever noticed that it is always ugly women who feed in public - perhaps its the only way they can get attention'. Mmmm nice.....
'My breasts are for my husband' - oooh this is a goodie - insinuating that mine, as a bf mum, are not! That's right - I'm this fat hairy asexual thing thing that hasn't been near my hubbie sexually for years.... sex and bf are not mutually exclusive!
Bf is selfish - a frequent one used my MILs who want to give baby a bottle. You're keeping baby all to yourself - Mil or hubby can't feed baby !!!! Selfish mummy.
BF ruins your boobs ('I wanted a chance of my boobs not reaching my knees in middle age').
BF made me feel unsexy (Kate Garroway).
Bf'ing a baby over 6mths is 'creepy' - tis everywhere!
And, for the record, I never said that my opinion is worth more cos I have more posts! Nor do I believe it. I was pointing out that I was not a troll - that i had lots of posts and had not just joined the site to cause trouble.
Signing off now ladies, just wanting to raise a few points, certainly not upset ff mums- I would never want to upset any mums - but just to point out it's not just ff mums who get the bad attitudes.
Lara, Slow, MrsA, I would never ever comment on your parenting ability - I think you are all fab mums. May all our babies be well fed - be it formula or breast. xx
Look at the thread on judging mums as an example.. there are a few posts saying "I judge another mother who chooses to ff". I'm sure they don't need your judgements, thanks very much
I assume you're referring to my post on that thread, in which I said "I would judge a mother who chooses to formula feed for purely selfish reasons."
You're right, no one NEEDS anyone else's judgements on anything! But this particular thread was specifically asking if we judge other parents' choices! I was just contributing to the argument, and contributing honestly. It is unfair to drag that into an entirely different thread.
I want it noted that I did NOT say "I judge a mother who chooses to ffeed." I do NOT watch mothers bottle feeding their babies and make a negative judgement. I (thought I) was very clear that I would only ever think badly of ffeeding mothers who chose to ffeed because they wanted to reserve their boobs for their husband, or to go out and get drunk, or can't be bothered getting through the initial pain barrier or putting in the time to perfect a latch. Never ever do I assume any ffeeding mother I see is this selfish, or am rude enough to ask "why do you ffeed?" I fully understand an awful lot of women want to but just couldn't, and that this is a source of upset for them. What I can't understand is why someone wouldn't even try.
It's all very well to say "I shouldn't need to justify my reasons for choosing to ffeed my baby" - I agree, no one has to explain themselves. But actually, when someone volunteers the information and the above examples are given as reasons then honestly - would you you just accept them without judging?
Tottie - Thank you for replying to me...I really do appreciate it. Just want to clarify though, as through reading my post I didnt make this clear, I was talking about on BE, not in the world in general. Sorry hun. I am aware that there are masses of negative attitudes to bf in the outside world. I myself, on my 2nd day out of hospital with my 12 day old twins was asked, when I wished to feed them in a very popular phone shop, whether I would be more comfortable feeding them in the toilet! My reply was that I wouldnt eat my food in the toilet and wouldnt expect my children to! I also had to feed them OUTSIDE the specific bf room in another very popular department store as my buggy wouldnt fit down the alley to the room and I refused to leave one 4 week old baby in either the buggy outside or in the room while I fetched the others. The seat I was sat on happened to be just by the lift and the tuts (and 'loud' under the breath comments) by 'mainly' elderly people was enough to make anyone cry so I know exactly where you are coming from and wholeheartedly agree with you there.
My post was talking about every mother on this forum (as all are excellent mothers who just want whats best for their children) feeling the need to have to select the 'less than ideal' (again, obv not those who choose to ff) option - as ff is often referred to (directly on this post by some) and therefore, feeling the desperate need to defend this option.
tottie - sorry if I didn't make it clear but no one (as far as I can see) is having a go at you hunny. I certainly didn't intend my comments to come across like that.
Some comments on here have been very nasty. but not yours. You seem to have put across your pro bf'ing stance in an accepting and non-judgemental way, and I respect that.
I will always take issue with anyone who puts someone else down just because they have a different point of view/opinion, no matter how they feed their child. There is a world of difference between promoting breastfeeding and slagging off formula feeding, and I think the reason people have reacted badly was because Giselle (and Calliegh) have crossed this line.
Sorry, I'm probably not explaining myself very well. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
Pink Toothbrush: I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, I didn't even remember who said what just remembered reading a few comments of that nature. So sorry if you felt I was targetting you, I was just trying to point out that these comments do crop up, perhaps not in the best way, I admit. I feel a little upset that I may have offended you as it was certainly not my intention and I usually try to be very diplomatic on here, same as I would to someone's face. Please know I wasn't aiming any comments at anyone personally. Of course you are free to judge who you like and you are right that this post was asking for that. I personally wouldn't judge anyone for wanting to ff whatever their reasons as (and I've said it already a few times in this thread) in my opinion it's none of my business or anyone else's really. But I can understand your point of view and why you might do so when you consider the reasons "selfish". I don't share that view, but I respect it because it's not just judgements for the sake of it without regard for the reasons for things. Honestly, what really pisses me off though are the kind of judgements where things are just black and white: bf=good, ff=evil. That's not what you were getting at, I know. But I think everyone can admit there are some on this website who do take that stance and it's quite unfair. Anyway, again, sorry - I wasn't trying to pinpoint any post in particular. xxxxx
Lara, Nikki, Gemmiebaby, thanks for clarifying hun. Sorry about my rants! Something close to my heart as you can tell lol! So easy to get wires crossed / take offence when none is meant. xxxxxx
Bet you wish you hadnt started this Pumpkin Pie Lol! To answer your original question, yes I did find it a bit insulting. I ff. I'm not going to justify myself as to why. And my daughters births were less than ideal. Things go wrong even if you research and plan every last detail. Mum's who have the births they wanted are very lucky.
I personally don't fine it offending at the end of the day it's just someones point of view (which everyone is entitled to).
I agree with some of the things that she says and not others obviously some of the things she has said are just stupid and uneducated.
In some circumstances it maybe that some people give up breast feeding through lack of support and knowledge, and they then feel guilty for not continuing. In some circumstances it IS peoples decision to stop and in some circumstances it is NOT someones decision to stop bf. Either way people need to learn to live with their choices.
personally i went to antenatal classes and a separate bf session, and they did not prepare me at all for how hard, time consuming, painful and tiring bf can be. I think if that was the case a lot more people would stick at it for longer if they were informed. Although there shouldn't be a bloody law to BF i do think that there should be more emphasis in BF in public spaces, (some areas are better than others) and for BF to be seen as the norm and not the other way round after all although not always possible ff is seen as the norm. All my friends and whenever it is brought up that lo needs his feed, people always comment oh best get his bottle ready etc etc and i think that is a shame.
I had an e section due to failed induction because of waters going at 35 weeks. This was done at 37 weeks. lo was in distress and after 24 hours of labour i was still only 1cm. I had an horrendous time and was in a lot of pain after as i had a immunity to morphine and was also not allowed anti inflammatories due to being allergic. I could barley hold lo and had skin to skin about 2 hours after birth, he was not interested at all. My Lo did not feed from me for the first 36 hours!! but i was insistent that he would and all the staff were really supportive, in this time my lo was on antibiotics due to them thinking he had an infection and so also spent some of his time neonatal. All this was very stressful. when he finally latched on and started feeding it was so so painful and i lived with hot and cold flannels for about two weeks by which time they were starting to get a little better, i also endured 24 hour feeding sessions and this is not an exaggeration (that is when i came on here and BF forum gave me lots of support and advice) so having a c section, and not a vb does not mean that you can't breast feed!! and here i am now still ebf for 6 months . I do feel that i'm lucky, but it hasn't gone without a lot of persistance and hard work!!
Yes BF is hard but i do feel that some not ALL do give up too easily and deep down maybe that's why SOME (and I'm not saying people on here) feel guilty because they have given up too easily when in hindsight they should have stuck to it.
i am not anti ff at all and i am in the process of weaning my lo onto ff for some day time feeds as i am going back to work, but i think that for everyone who does BF and have stuck to it all deserve a pat on the back because i don't believe it is ever easy. I also think that those who couldn't FF for reasons BEYOND their control such as medication etc should be supported and not made to feel like they are bad mummy's as they certainly are not.
Replies
Me, I'd be papped! And I'd be proud. I've bf in Ikea, on the London Eye, on the train in countless cafes & restaurants, in the Tate, in parks, on the beach, in the Natural History Museum, Science Museum and many other places. And I don't give a fig who saw! You have one rule for one set of opinions and one rule for another. Why is it ok for a mum to get a slap for a pro-bf stance?
Gemmiebaby, I do take your point (and thanks Rosapenny & WowBaby), but don't ever think bf is plain-sailing just because everyone 'knows' breast is best. There is a mass of negativity out there that ff are possibly not aware of. Allow me to enlighten:
'Bf in public is gross' (hence DVO comments) - aka 'we don't want to see women flopping their boobs about in public) - Bf should be done in private, and you are a badly organised mother if you can't schedule this properly! Women used to manage in the olden days didn't they?
I have actually read: 'have you ever noticed that it is always ugly women who feed in public - perhaps its the only way they can get attention'. Mmmm nice.....
'My breasts are for my husband' - oooh this is a goodie - insinuating that mine, as a bf mum, are not! That's right - I'm this fat hairy asexual thing thing that hasn't been near my hubbie sexually for years.... sex and bf are not mutually exclusive!
Bf is selfish - a frequent one used my MILs who want to give baby a bottle. You're keeping baby all to yourself - Mil or hubby can't feed baby !!!! Selfish mummy.
BF ruins your boobs ('I wanted a chance of my boobs not reaching my knees in middle age').
BF made me feel unsexy (Kate Garroway).
Bf'ing a baby over 6mths is 'creepy' - tis everywhere!
And, for the record, I never said that my opinion is worth more cos I have more posts! Nor do I believe it. I was pointing out that I was not a troll - that i had lots of posts and had not just joined the site to cause trouble.
Signing off now ladies, just wanting to raise a few points, certainly not upset ff mums- I would never want to upset any mums - but just to point out it's not just ff mums who get the bad attitudes.
Lara, Slow, MrsA, I would never ever comment on your parenting ability - I think you are all fab mums. May all our babies be well fed - be it formula or breast.
xx
I assume you're referring to my post on that thread, in which I said "I would judge a mother who chooses to formula feed for purely selfish reasons."
You're right, no one NEEDS anyone else's judgements on anything! But this particular thread was specifically asking if we judge other parents' choices! I was just contributing to the argument, and contributing honestly. It is unfair to drag that into an entirely different thread.
I want it noted that I did NOT say "I judge a mother who chooses to ffeed." I do NOT watch mothers bottle feeding their babies and make a negative judgement. I (thought I) was very clear that I would only ever think badly of ffeeding mothers who chose to ffeed because they wanted to reserve their boobs for their husband, or to go out and get drunk, or can't be bothered getting through the initial pain barrier or putting in the time to perfect a latch. Never ever do I assume any ffeeding mother I see is this selfish, or am rude enough to ask "why do you ffeed?" I fully understand an awful lot of women want to but just couldn't, and that this is a source of upset for them. What I can't understand is why someone wouldn't even try.
It's all very well to say "I shouldn't need to justify my reasons for choosing to ffeed my baby" - I agree, no one has to explain themselves. But actually, when someone volunteers the information and the above examples are given as reasons then honestly - would you you just accept them without judging?
My post was talking about every mother on this forum (as all are excellent mothers who just want whats best for their children) feeling the need to have to select the 'less than ideal' (again, obv not those who choose to ff) option - as ff is often referred to (directly on this post by some) and therefore, feeling the desperate need to defend this option.
Hope that makes sense. xx
Some comments on here have been very nasty. but not yours. You seem to have put across your pro bf'ing stance in an accepting and non-judgemental way, and I respect that.
I will always take issue with anyone who puts someone else down just because they have a different point of view/opinion, no matter how they feed their child. There is a world of difference between promoting breastfeeding and slagging off formula feeding, and I think the reason people have reacted badly was because Giselle (and Calliegh) have crossed this line.
Sorry, I'm probably not explaining myself very well. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
Nx
Of course you are free to judge who you like and you are right that this post was asking for that. I personally wouldn't judge anyone for wanting to ff whatever their reasons as (and I've said it already a few times in this thread) in my opinion it's none of my business or anyone else's really. But I can understand your point of view and why you might do so when you consider the reasons "selfish". I don't share that view, but I respect it because it's not just judgements for the sake of it without regard for the reasons for things.
Honestly, what really pisses me off though are the kind of judgements where things are just black and white: bf=good, ff=evil. That's not what you were getting at, I know. But I think everyone can admit there are some on this website who do take that stance and it's quite unfair. Anyway, again, sorry - I wasn't trying to pinpoint any post in particular.
xxxxx
[Modified by: Mitxi on August 08, 2010 07:32 AM]
To answer your original question, yes I did find it a bit insulting.
I ff. I'm not going to justify myself as to why. And my daughters births were less than ideal. Things go wrong even if you research and plan every last detail. Mum's who have the births they wanted are very lucky.
Each to their own I say!
Serena x
I agree with some of the things that she says and not others obviously some of the things she has said are just stupid and uneducated.
In some circumstances it maybe that some people give up breast feeding through lack of support and knowledge, and they then feel guilty for not continuing. In some circumstances it IS peoples decision to stop and in some circumstances it is NOT someones decision to stop bf. Either way people need to learn to live with their choices.
personally i went to antenatal classes and a separate bf session, and they did not prepare me at all for how hard, time consuming, painful and tiring bf can be. I think if that was the case a lot more people would stick at it for longer if they were informed. Although there shouldn't be a bloody law to BF i do think that there should be more emphasis in BF in public spaces, (some areas are better than others) and for BF to be seen as the norm and not the other way round after all although not always possible ff is seen as the norm. All my friends and whenever it is brought up that lo needs his feed, people always comment oh best get his bottle ready etc etc and i think that is a shame.
I had an e section due to failed induction because of waters going at 35 weeks. This was done at 37 weeks. lo was in distress and after 24 hours of labour i was still only 1cm. I had an horrendous time and was in a lot of pain after as i had a immunity to morphine and was also not allowed anti inflammatories due to being allergic. I could barley hold lo and had skin to skin about 2 hours after birth, he was not interested at all. My Lo did not feed from me for the first 36 hours!! but i was insistent that he would and all the staff were really supportive, in this time my lo was on antibiotics due to them thinking he had an infection and so also spent some of his time neonatal. All this was very stressful. when he finally latched on and started feeding it was so so painful and i lived with hot and cold flannels for about two weeks by which time they were starting to get a little better, i also endured 24 hour feeding sessions and this is not an exaggeration (that is when i came on here and BF forum gave me lots of support and advice) so having a c section, and not a vb does not mean that you can't breast feed!! and here i am now still ebf for 6 months
Yes BF is hard but i do feel that some not ALL do give up too easily and deep down maybe that's why SOME (and I'm not saying people on here) feel guilty because they have given up too easily when in hindsight they should have stuck to it.
i am not anti ff at all and i am in the process of weaning my lo onto ff for some day time feeds as i am going back to work, but i think that for everyone who does BF and have stuck to it all deserve a pat on the back because i don't believe it is ever easy. I also think that those who couldn't FF for reasons BEYOND their control such as medication etc should be supported and not made to feel like they are bad mummy's as they certainly are not.
xx
but I feel it has got quite personal