The implication that all private school children are the same in that they are competitive, rich, rah, spoilt etc is really rude, and anyone who makes such a statement is just showing how ignorant of the matter they are! And the suggestion that privately educated children have no idea of the "real world" and don't get to "mix with a range of people" is similarly very naive.
Agree with this. I hadn't read all the replies before I replied myself but having done so now I was a bit offended. I certainly don't think I was spoilt - I was very lucky that my parents valued education above other things. The people I went to school with came from all walks of life and some of the parents had made huge sacrifices to give their children an excellent education. Several were on scholarships. Most of us realised how lucky we were to go to such a good school and acted accordingly. I don't know anyone who had second homes overseas!!
Sure there were some spoiled kids, snobs etc but that speaks to those kids (or more accurately, their parents), not the school. I used to work as a nanny while at uni and some of the most spoiled/snobby kids I ever met went to state schools - their parents chose to spend their money on cars, holidays etc rather than education (I'm referring to particular parents here rather than all parents of kids in state schools obviously!!).
I also believe that education is a basic right and that more needs to be done to improve the system. However I also think there is a place for private schools, particularly where they are following a particular philosophy (eg Rudolf Steiner, Montessori) or religion - it gives parents a choice. The school I went to had incredible facilities, resources and staff and I simply don't think public schools have the same amount of money to spend on such things. They should do, but they don't.
Calleigh - I went to state schools and was in the top set for everything except maths and science (I was in 2nd set for these). I was highest performer in the year for my english SATs in year 9 and got A or A* in all my english and languages (french and german) GCSEs. However, I had my ds aged 19 dropped out of uni & work part time in an admin role. My stepsister was just as high performer as me but in different areas, she now works in data entry, my sister was a potential oxbridge candidate selected by the school and she works in burger king! My friends from school are totally different from me now -one of them is studying medicine - I guess it disproves your theory a little bit!!! Lol.
I think personality and parenting means WAY more than schooling. My dad was a great parent and still is but he is very much a believer in making your own mistakes and never pushed us to do well in school. I of course preferred this approach to the pushy parent types, but it has its drawbacks. I was a dreamy teenager and really couldn't give a crap about school, except German and English lit. But even those I left all my coursework till the last minute....
I'm finding this an interesting topic and it's got me curious....both my parents went to private school (mum on scholarship) but they chose for us to go to state school. Strange x
My eldest 2 children attended a good local primary school. However Chris is dyslexic and the school were very slow getting him statemented. During one of his sessions after school with a private teacher she advised me to try the local private school. I made an appnt and at age 7 he started there. Chris was due the end of Sep 93 but came on Aug 26th. He spent the first 5 years of his life in and out of hosp and missed out a lot schooling. I tried so hard to get him put back a year and the local council refused. The private school suggested it before I even asked. It was the best decision I ever made. We could not not send our dd so she also attended the school which had only turned co ed that year. A few years later we moved to Bahrain were private schools are the only choice. My youngest 3 who were all born in Bahrain attend the private school too.
I think if Chris had not suffered from so many setbacks then I would never have considered private school regardless of money. However, for Chris it was the best thing I could have ever done for him. He just got his GCSE results last week and I am proud to say he passed all 11 with great grades ( I am welling up just writing this).
Yes there were some prententious people there but I just avoided them. Chris made friends with normal kids from similar backgrounds. He still had his mates on the street at home. He has come out a well rounded man but still knows where he is from and has no illusions of grandeur.
I do think that all kids should have access to a good education but private education and private healthcare should be there for those who can. A lot of the parents I met actually scrimped and saved to send their kids there and only a handful were so rich that the fees were just a drop in the ocean to them.
I don't think I would send T to a private school - we would never be able to afford it anyway. Well, not without making some huge sacrifices and I think it is important that we have money for her to do things outside of school, such as go on nice holidays, see places and take up hobbies which interest her. I am lucky in that in my area there are five good grammar schools. I would definitely urge T to sit the 11+ and hope that she got into one of them. Though preferably not the one which I teach at!
In my school the average class size is 25 and as a minority subject I often teach A level groups of 4 or 5. Last year I had a year 9 class of 12 and the year before two year 11 classes of 10 and 11. I think we all make these decisions based on our individual circumstances and if what your local state comp or grammar offers is good, then you are one of the lucky ones and won't have to shell out for a private school. Luck of the draw in most cases.
Calleigh - I went to state schools and was in the top set for everything except maths and science (I was in 2nd set for these). I was highest performer in the year for my english SATs in year 9 and got A or A* in all my english and languages (french and german) GCSEs. However, I had my ds aged 19 dropped out of uni & work part time in an admin role. My stepsister was just as high performer as me but in different areas, she now works in data entry, my sister was a potential oxbridge candidate selected by the school and she works in burger king! My friends from school are totally different from me now -one of them is studying medicine - I guess it disproves your theory a little bit!!! Lol. x
not sure it does tbh. what you said was your friends at school were also intelligent, like you. that's not mixing.
Hiya Lara.. just thought would add to what you said...You ARE paying for it really! When you think about it you and your OH work damn hard and your contributions pay for the schools. You have every right to expect Chloe to go to a good school and get a good education in the public sector.
Someone said (sorry i havent time to scroll back) that is down to good luck and its true. It shouldnt be tho. Every parent should have access to a school place where their child will get a good education. Its so unfair that some areas have and some have to put up with failing schools.
Where I am from in the UK (North England) the private school was full of normal people who had just landed on their feet really. There were a few who could be classed as snobby but no more or less than a lot of schools. I, like Mrs Amanda was classed as a snob in my school. I am Catholic and attended the Catholic school. This was miles from my house and in a council estate. As we lived in what is classed as a leafy suburb I was classed as snobby. You get this in school across the board and indeed across the board.
I just hope all our little babies/toddlers etc get the education they deserve!
d xx
ps Cath, I live in Saar just next to the Dilmum Club in Palace Gardens 4. My kids go to St Christophers school. Where did you live when there???
We lived all over the place! We started off in Awali, then moved to Manama, then Hamala Beach!
I didn't live there full time - my Dad moved out there for work when I was 14 so I finished school in the UK, but spent all holidays etc there. I loved it!
we moved there in July 2002 so we would have clashed at times. Small world isnt it?? We had friends in Hamala beach in 2004/05 The Harveys. There was Miguel, Nadine, Josh and jasmine. Mum and Dad were Steve and Debbie.
You would not recognise it now as they have built loads on the beach..shame as it was lovely. We lived just near it in jasra but moved this year to be closer to the schools. d x
Totally g/c here from IVF forum but had to reply ) - Mrs. Amanda, I could have written that myself. I experienced both sides of the coin and the abuse I got from the comp kids (and some of the teachers) as I spoke a bit differently haunts me to this day. All I wanted to do was make friends and be accepted as the new girl. And to be honest, the lessons at the comp were years behind the private school and not as varied or as interesting. So I got bored, started bunking off, etc. I couldn't wait to get out. If I ever had the money, I'd send my kids to a private school - the standards were simply far better. But as I'm unlikely to ever afford it, a brilliant grammar school would do as well. Just need to get the kids now!! Lol!
From reading this debate a bit more - it seems that the important point isn't whether the school is private or not, but whether the school is a good school.
There are good and bad private schools and good and bad state schools, as with anything it seems there are no guarantees, so when choosing a school we just have to use our mummy judgement.
I was lucky enough to go to private school from 11-16, but like others on here, it was particularly 'posh' and my parents work hard to be able to send me there. But there are some cons to a private education as well - yes we had smaller class sizes this meant we were often taught as a whole year, or at least only split into 2 sets, although obviously we had the benefit of more attention for the teacher, it also meant that that class had to be taught to the level of the lowest ability (not trying to sound harsh, just can't think of a better way of saying it!). The school was dependant on people who could afford he fees, not whether their children were acadmically inclined, so there could often be quite a big difference in one class.
There wasn't the choice of subjects at GCSE level much beyond the core english, maths, science, humanities and languages.
Again, as the school was so small we suffered in more vocational and extra curricular activty as well - we usually had to have a least 3 years to get a full netball/hockey/football etc... team together, and as a result were normally completely outplayed! We didn't have the most new equipment for sports or drama etc... - I really realised how much I missed out when I when to my nieces end of year show (We Will Rock You), it was fantastic compared to what we were able to put on!
But we did get the longest school holidays!
Obviously all schools are different, but just some thoughts for those of you considering private. I wouldn't have changed my education (the schools in my area were terrible and I'm quite lazy, given the opportunity to hide amongst lots of pupils I probably wouldn't have done anything at school), and am extremely grateful to my parents, but looking back there are some things I do think I missed out on.
I can relate to the 'other' side of the snobbery too - we moved house when I was 11 and I went to a new school - then a 'secondary modern', and I had an awful time being called 'posh' because of how I spoke.
That wasn't the worst of it either - I worked hard at school, and did well. I'm not gifted, just naturally academic. If i did well in any school work, or god forbid came top in any tests, I was turned on and called a 'snob'. This haunts me to this day - being made to feel so bad for doing well.
Thankfully my mum found out what was going on and fought to get me into a better school (the grammar - we were new to the are, so I had never sat the tests). I honestly believe that if I had stayed at that first school I would have deliberately started to do badly in the tests/exams so as not to be bullied for it.
A bad school can definitely stop your child achieving their best.
[Modified by: ~ Tottie ~ on September 02, 2010 09:00 PM]
I've enjoyed Reading all of the replies ladies and thanks for them all and I must say I'm going to start looking into schools soon once I have a better idea of settling down (were still renting ATM) and making sure I'm in a good catchment area.
I think that competitive children always exist and I used to get mocked because my mum bought me sketchers rather than nike at one point haha so it can be absolutley anything that sets a kid off!
My main reason for considering private ed was because following on from the recent UCAS report that children who were making the grades were still not getting their placements I thought private ed would give him an edge? Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this way but as someone has already put, we don't live in an idealist world and not everything is fair.
Aren't the new govt saying that anyone not happy with ther current schools can open one themselves? What about those if they come into the equation?
This is all a long time in advance (although I do know how fast it flies - my boy started pre-school today and I swear I only gave birth to him yesterday let alone MJ!!!!)
so - who's to know what there will be available out there?
We're completely screwed by some people's opinions then - we haven't got a private school closer than an hours drive to us! So my children are doomed to failure by going to state school (none of which in the close area are 'apparently' any good) - but I'd much prefer that as they will have friends close to home they can play out with, and I'll actually be able to afford to take them on holidays and buy them nice things occasionally as treats rather than scrimping every penny to send them to a school that costs a fortune (leaving no money left for uni!) when if they have been brought up with the right attitude (skills permitting) they can still work damned hard to get where they want to be (like i did - i qualified from uni having been at a state school!) - a private school isnt the be all and end all of education. It may have slightly better %s of pupils that attend uni - but the current govt info is telling students to aim lower as unis clamour to fulfil their 'fair' equal opps quotas.....
I'll refrain from private schools I think - I guess an ex of mine had a massive influence on that when 4 weeks into the relationship he told me exactly where we'd be living and which schools our 3 children would be going to! (I have nothing to do with that control freak anymore!!)
I haven't had time to read all of this thred, so apologies if I am repeating.
I taught in private schools for 17 years whilst my Mum worked in state schools, so I can see the pros and cons for both. However, I was reading in the press a few months back that things are changing because of the recession. A lot of people are now sending there children to state schools, were as before they could afford private. The local State Primary schools in my area are now very overcrowded because of this, whereas the private schools are advertising all the time. x
Who is to say you wont meet a good mix of people in a private school? I went to state schools (a lot of them i moved a lot) and i wouldn't say i met a wide range of people from different backgrounds really. Some of the schools i went to where all Christian and everyone was white where as one of my secondary school was 99% Muslim so again not a very mixed bunched of people! I think it all comes down to what school you go to and not weather it is private or not.
If i could afford to send my children to private school (which we couldn't in a million years) then i would consider it, i know my husband definitely would. xx
I agree its wrong to "label" kids who go to private schools with certain things that have been said. Although I will admit to complaining about all the Mum's in their giant 4x4s that I come into contact with every morning whilst they're dropping their kids off at the million private schools near my LOs nursery and my work!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Guildford - there are 500 million schools here!)
My OH went to a private (fee paying) school and fully believes this is why he's done so well etc... :roll:
I went to a state school - didn't go to uni (was too much of a home-girl back then, but I regret not going now) but have turned out OK and, until recently, was earning a very decent salary for someone "not qualified".
Therefore, our response is that if we could afford it, we would send our kids to private school... but we can't afford it (unless we only had Tobes!) so we won't be. Actually, that is my hubby's response - I would not choose to personally - but he would def. over-rule me with something like this IF we could afford it.
However, we are currently in the process of moving house to a town where "apparantely" there are some of the best schools in England (or maybe that's the South East?). :roll: I roll my eyes so much because my hubby is obsessed with good schools and ofsted and etc... etc... :roll: so I agree with those who try and move to areas with good schools.
I am pleased T will get into a good school - but I agree that education is not just about how good the school is - its about the parents encouraging their children, the children having access to learning tools (at home too) and extra curricular activities etc... We will do everything we can to encourage ours to enjoy school and do well - especially as I didn't go to uni and now really regret it.
I am however, very proud to say, that Toby will hopefully get into the infant and junior schools that Jonny Wilkinson went too!!!!!!!!
Replies
Agree with this. I hadn't read all the replies before I replied myself but having done so now I was a bit offended. I certainly don't think I was spoilt - I was very lucky that my parents valued education above other things. The people I went to school with came from all walks of life and some of the parents had made huge sacrifices to give their children an excellent education. Several were on scholarships. Most of us realised how lucky we were to go to such a good school and acted accordingly. I don't know anyone who had second homes overseas!!
Sure there were some spoiled kids, snobs etc but that speaks to those kids (or more accurately, their parents), not the school. I used to work as a nanny while at uni and some of the most spoiled/snobby kids I ever met went to state schools - their parents chose to spend their money on cars, holidays etc rather than education (I'm referring to particular parents here rather than all parents of kids in state schools obviously!!).
I also believe that education is a basic right and that more needs to be done to improve the system. However I also think there is a place for private schools, particularly where they are following a particular philosophy (eg Rudolf Steiner, Montessori) or religion - it gives parents a choice. The school I went to had incredible facilities, resources and staff and I simply don't think public schools have the same amount of money to spend on such things. They should do, but they don't.
I think personality and parenting means WAY more than schooling. My dad was a great parent and still is but he is very much a believer in making your own mistakes and never pushed us to do well in school. I of course preferred this approach to the pushy parent types, but it has its drawbacks. I was a dreamy teenager and really couldn't give a crap about school, except German and English lit. But even those I left all my coursework till the last minute....
I'm finding this an interesting topic and it's got me curious....both my parents went to private school (mum on scholarship) but they chose for us to go to state school. Strange x
My eldest 2 children attended a good local primary school. However Chris is dyslexic and the school were very slow getting him statemented. During one of his sessions after school with a private teacher she advised me to try the local private school. I made an appnt and at age 7 he started there. Chris was due the end of Sep 93 but came on Aug 26th. He spent the first 5 years of his life in and out of hosp and missed out a lot schooling. I tried so hard to get him put back a year and the local council refused. The private school suggested it before I even asked. It was the best decision I ever made. We could not not send our dd so she also attended the school which had only turned co ed that year. A few years later we moved to Bahrain were private schools are the only choice. My youngest 3 who were all born in Bahrain attend the private school too.
I think if Chris had not suffered from so many setbacks then I would never have considered private school regardless of money. However, for Chris it was the best thing I could have ever done for him. He just got his GCSE results last week and I am proud to say he passed all 11 with great grades ( I am welling up just writing this).
Yes there were some prententious people there but I just avoided them. Chris made friends with normal kids from similar backgrounds. He still had his mates on the street at home. He has come out a well rounded man but still knows where he is from and has no illusions of grandeur.
I do think that all kids should have access to a good education but private education and private healthcare should be there for those who can. A lot of the parents I met actually scrimped and saved to send their kids there and only a handful were so rich that the fees were just a drop in the ocean to them.
Interesting reading all the replies tho...
d x
In my school the average class size is 25 and as a minority subject I often teach A level groups of 4 or 5. Last year I had a year 9 class of 12 and the year before two year 11 classes of 10 and 11. I think we all make these decisions based on our individual circumstances and if what your local state comp or grammar offers is good, then you are one of the lucky ones and won't have to shell out for a private school. Luck of the draw in most cases.
x
not sure it does tbh. what you said was your friends at school were also intelligent, like you. that's not mixing.
xx
just thought would add to what you said...You ARE paying for it really! When you think about it you and your OH work damn hard and your contributions pay for the schools. You have every right to expect Chloe to go to a good school and get a good education in the public sector.
Someone said (sorry i havent time to scroll back) that is down to good luck and its true. It shouldnt be tho. Every parent should have access to a school place where their child will get a good education. Its so unfair that some areas have and some have to put up with failing schools.
Where I am from in the UK (North England) the private school was full of normal people who had just landed on their feet really. There were a few who could be classed as snobby but no more or less than a lot of schools. I, like Mrs Amanda was classed as a snob in my school. I am Catholic and attended the Catholic school. This was miles from my house and in a council estate. As we lived in what is classed as a leafy suburb I was classed as snobby. You get this in school across the board and indeed across the board.
I just hope all our little babies/toddlers etc get the education they deserve!
d xx
ps Cath, I live in Saar just next to the Dilmum Club in Palace Gardens 4. My kids go to St Christophers school. Where did you live when there???
I didn't live there full time - my Dad moved out there for work when I was 14 so I finished school in the UK, but spent all holidays etc there. I loved it!
We were there between 1993 and 2006.
xx
We had friends in Hamala beach in 2004/05 The Harveys. There was Miguel, Nadine, Josh and jasmine. Mum and Dad were Steve and Debbie.
You would not recognise it now as they have built loads on the beach..shame as it was lovely. We lived just near it in jasra but moved this year to be closer to the schools.
d x
There are good and bad private schools and good and bad state schools, as with anything it seems there are no guarantees, so when choosing a school we just have to use our mummy judgement.
Nx
There wasn't the choice of subjects at GCSE level much beyond the core english, maths, science, humanities and languages.
Again, as the school was so small we suffered in more vocational and extra curricular activty as well - we usually had to have a least 3 years to get a full netball/hockey/football etc... team together, and as a result were normally completely outplayed! We didn't have the most new equipment for sports or drama etc... - I really realised how much I missed out when I when to my nieces end of year show (We Will Rock You), it was fantastic compared to what we were able to put on!
But we did get the longest school holidays!
Obviously all schools are different, but just some thoughts for those of you considering private. I wouldn't have changed my education (the schools in my area were terrible and I'm quite lazy, given the opportunity to hide amongst lots of pupils I probably wouldn't have done anything at school), and am extremely grateful to my parents, but looking back there are some things I do think I missed out on.
That wasn't the worst of it either - I worked hard at school, and did well. I'm not gifted, just naturally academic. If i did well in any school work, or god forbid came top in any tests, I was turned on and called a 'snob'. This haunts me to this day - being made to feel so bad for doing well.
Thankfully my mum found out what was going on and fought to get me into a better school (the grammar - we were new to the are, so I had never sat the tests). I honestly believe that if I had stayed at that first school I would have deliberately started to do badly in the tests/exams so as not to be bullied for it.
A bad school can definitely stop your child achieving their best.
[Modified by: ~ Tottie ~ on September 02, 2010 09:00 PM]
I think that competitive children always exist and I used to get mocked because my mum bought me sketchers rather than nike at one point haha so it can be absolutley anything that sets a kid off!
My main reason for considering private ed was because following on from the recent UCAS report that children who were making the grades were still not getting their placements I thought private ed would give him an edge? Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this way but as someone has already put, we don't live in an idealist world and not everything is fair.
Aren't the new govt saying that anyone not happy with ther current schools can open one themselves? What about those if they come into the equation?
This is all a long time in advance (although I do know how fast it flies - my boy started pre-school today and I swear I only gave birth to him yesterday let alone MJ!!!!)
so - who's to know what there will be available out there?
We're completely screwed by some people's opinions then - we haven't got a private school closer than an hours drive to us! So my children are doomed to failure by going to state school (none of which in the close area are 'apparently' any good) - but I'd much prefer that as they will have friends close to home they can play out with, and I'll actually be able to afford to take them on holidays and buy them nice things occasionally as treats rather than scrimping every penny to send them to a school that costs a fortune (leaving no money left for uni!) when if they have been brought up with the right attitude (skills permitting) they can still work damned hard to get where they want to be (like i did - i qualified from uni having been at a state school!) - a private school isnt the be all and end all of education. It may have slightly better %s of pupils that attend uni - but the current govt info is telling students to aim lower as unis clamour to fulfil their 'fair' equal opps quotas.....
I'll refrain from private schools I think - I guess an ex of mine had a massive influence on that when 4 weeks into the relationship he told me exactly where we'd be living and which schools our 3 children would be going to!
(I have nothing to do with that control freak anymore!!)
xx
I taught in private schools for 17 years whilst my Mum worked in state schools, so I can see the pros and cons for both.
However, I was reading in the press a few months back that things are changing because of the recession. A lot of people are now sending there children to state schools, were as before they could afford private. The local State Primary schools in my area are now very overcrowded because of this, whereas the private schools are advertising all the time. x
If i could afford to send my children to private school (which we couldn't in a million years) then i would consider it, i know my husband definitely would. xx
My OH went to a private (fee paying) school and fully believes this is why he's done so well etc... :roll:
I went to a state school - didn't go to uni (was too much of a home-girl back then, but I regret not going now) but have turned out OK and, until recently, was earning a very decent salary for someone "not qualified".
Therefore, our response is that if we could afford it, we would send our kids to private school... but we can't afford it (unless we only had Tobes!) so we won't be. Actually, that is my hubby's response - I would not choose to personally - but he would def. over-rule me with something like this IF we could afford it.
However, we are currently in the process of moving house to a town where "apparantely" there are some of the best schools in England (or maybe that's the South East?). :roll: I roll my eyes so much because my hubby is obsessed with good schools and ofsted and etc... etc... :roll: so I agree with those who try and move to areas with good schools.
I am pleased T will get into a good school - but I agree that education is not just about how good the school is - its about the parents encouraging their children, the children having access to learning tools (at home too) and extra curricular activities etc... We will do everything we can to encourage ours to enjoy school and do well - especially as I didn't go to uni and now really regret it.
I am however, very proud to say, that Toby will hopefully get into the infant and junior schools that Jonny Wilkinson went too!!!!!!!!
Joo xxx