abortion - with/out scan??

I just want to know can the hospital/dr go ahead with an abortion without scanning you?? can they tell how far you are by just doing an internal exam?? I wrote bout my sister not long ago, well we talked about it and she said she wouldnt go through with it if she were further than 12 weeeks. well her boyfriend took her to hosp for the appointment today and is MUM who is the sister of one of the wards there went with them too??? and went in every room with them, including the examination room. She said they didnt scan her just did an internal and said she was 9 weeks, now ive had 3 babies and am pretty sure you cant tell from internal exam how far someone is pregnant and surely they would have to do a scan to confirm before they went ahead with op etc. I questioned this and she got defensive, so i said i would go to hosp with her monday for the abortion cos she will be on her own, she just come back and said his mum said she isnt allowed anyone with her, not even her boyfriend! What a load of garbage! his mum is adamant to keep me away from her clearly and she is clearly lying about something, my gut instict is that she is further than 12 weeks and wants to go ahead with abortion cos she so scared of them, breathing down her kneck, i will support her whatever she does, even though she said she wouldnt, i just cant understand her lying to me!!??

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  • I can't believe how much this poor girl is being pressurised! i remember your post and it got me so frustrated at the time! i'm sorry she is going through with it, but it is so clear that this isn't her decision! i don't know how you can help her but i can't see how they can tell how far you are from an internal-they can't see the baby down there!!!!!
    I think you should insist on going with her even if you wait outside, theres definately no rule about that! and at least you can keep that awful woman away from her!
    Good luck hun!
    xx
  • Maybe they did an internal scan?
    Or was it just an examination? I really don't think you can tell from an examination, you're right there. I feel for her, have you spoke to her? That's sooo not right about having no one with her as my stepsister had an abortion when she was 16 & her mum took her and went with her, again not sure if she was there for the procedure but she def went. xx
  • I feel so sorry for your sister. I have never had an abortion, but I didnt think they can tell how far pregnant you are from just doing an internal, unless like Tiger Lily says it was an internal scan. I had an internal scan at 4 weeks and it picked up on everything it needed too. I didnt think either that a doctor would abort without scanning incase theres a problem or complication i.e twins or ectopic etc.

    You're a lovely person Sara so i'm sure you'll do all you can to help her. I really would go with her as well, even if you stay outside or in car park etc. Keep that awful woman away from her.

    xxxx

    [Modified by: garfield on December 30, 2008 08:28 PM]

  • hi hon!

    it is possible to tell how many weeks preg you are by doing an internal, but i've never known anywhere not do a scan to confirm! the scan shouldnt necessarily be to confirm how many weeks, but also that the pregnancy is viable (not an early missed abortion - miscarriage, or a molar pregnancy, multiple pregnancy etc)

    (i've just written all this out, tried to find the RCOG guideline, and damn well lost it all!!)

    when you get preg, your uterus is tucked away inside your pelvis, and it is only as it gets bigger that it moves out of your pelvis and can be felt abdominally - do you remember your early trips to the midwife when she said she may not be able to hear your babes heart beat so soon, as sometimes it isnt possible?, and then she kept feeling the top of your bump (fundus) to make sure it was growing?

    the fundus isnt usually felt before 12 weeks, so if the doctor did an internal, and couldnt feel the fundus, then he would have known she was less than 12 weeks, but not any of the other things i said a scan would confirm.

    if she is less than 12 weeks, usually nowadays, medication is given, to see if this can bring on a "miscarriage". otherwise, she would have to go to theatre for a TOP (termination of pregnancy). this is usually in and out in a day, as long as no complications

    more than 12 weeks, NHS hospitals dont usually do the theatre trip, as it is risky. usually, they give pessaries into the vagina, to bring on "labour". this can often take a couple of days! some hospitals wont actually terminate after 12 weeks now anyway, but usually refer to another nearby hospital that will.

    i dont know why her MIL says you cant go with her - most wards allow you to take people in, see them to their beds etc, even if you cant stay all day.

    can you not speak with your sis on the drive in, just to see how she really feels about it all? she could end up making a massive mistake if she doesnt realise in time that there is someone who will support her.

    good luck to both of you!!

    xxxxxxx
  • What an awful situation hun, I really feel for you sister and for you having to try and deal with it.

    As far as I know they wouldn't do a medical abortion without scanning, but the tablet one they might. They wouldn't know how preg she was from an internal examination and it's hard to feel the uterus through the abdomen in early preg. Did she say they did an internal scan or just an examination?

    I have never had an abortion and I never could now- I had an emergency scan at 8/9 weeks preg with Evie and she was already a little baby.

    I hope you can help your sister through this awful time- her mil sounds so vile I can't believe she has so much influence over your sister.

    xxx
  • i've found the guidelines from the RCOG, and it only says you MAY be offered a scan...

    http://www.rcog.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=649
  • Hi, she said it was just an internal exam, no scane. I know she wants to keep the baby, but wont cos of what all his family have said especially his mum, she's going to his mums hospital, will be on his mums ward and she will look after her, she said tom (bf) cant go cos he has got to work, and i cant go apparantly no one can go, bullshit i will be there cos i know when she wakes up she will be in bits and why would she want to look at his mum straight after, i think i will be cryig too and will prob vent my anger to his mum and him if he had the fucking balls to be there for her! i know she wants it so much, but she defo wont keep it cos of them and i know she will hate him after this and she will prob move back in with me. I hate what she is doing, but at end of day i', ALL she has got, so i dont wanna say anymore than i already have to her, i'm sure she cant feel any worse than she does, if i turn on her she will have no one. But god help me frpom turning on her and her precious TWAT of a son!!
  • hun this might be hard to hear but it sounds like ur sis is being mentally abused by these people. i would ask what day it is happening say you'll call her afterwards then turn up n refuse to leave if his mum gets in ur face ask to see her superior explain you fear your sis is being bullied into something she doesnt want and if she still goes through with it ask if she can be another ward i couldnt go through with something i didnt want and have to face the person doing the forcing if you get what i mean xxxxxxxxxxx
  • Can you not try and take your sister aside and talk to her beforehand without them all butting in. Your sister obviously needs a lot of help at this time and if you are all that she has got them it has to be you. I know you want the best for your sister and you realise that this is not what she wants. Don't let them bully her into this decision. One she will probably regret for the rest of her life. I feel for you all.
  • Just to add to EmmaLou85 - I'd also send a letter in refering to your phone call conversation, just so that action will have to be taken, not to sound all 'conspiracy' but althought it is a hospital, you don't really know WHO is Who's work mate ect.. & you want to make sure, that your sister is firstly given the space to decide what is best for her personally without influance from anyone else, & secondly that her care wont be prediced with what ever she decided. Tha\t she is given information about all of her options.
    I personally could never have an abortion, having said that I'd (try) never to judge any one else.
    however, I do know it is very difficult for you because your sister has done this before,& 'planned' this pregnancy, but like others have said she may well be under a hell of a lot of pressure & will be feeling very vunrable.

    Just try to reasure her that you'll stand by her if she wanted the baby so she would not have to feel alone.

  • tbh, even though you can get in touch with the ward manager / shift leader i'm not to sure how much you would be able to do - or what they would be able to do- to stop this happening. they could possibly talk to your sister, but would they have any better impact than what you have said? if she is scared of this woman, then what difference would a member of staff, other than a family member be able to make? in my experience, it is usually family members (if the woman herself is unsure) that convince the woman.

    although the MIL can be stopped from looking after her-many places wont let you look after family members unless it has been put in writing to unit managers anyway-, if your sister signs the consent form, then that is that. legally she can have a TOP at any age without needing anyone else to know / signing etc - she will have also legally had to have 2 doctors sign the blue TOP document - this could have been a GP as that is more than likely how she was refered- they would have deemed that she was capable of making this decision.

    the only other way it could be stopped is by legal action / psychiatric evaluation of your sisters mental health, but i dont think either of these would be considered for her, and i dont think that you would want that for her anyway?
  • not sure, i agreew maybe it was an internal scan? i had to have an internal with my 1st scan coz i was only 9 weeks and didnt show on external.. i really feel for u mate, cant u get her away from them and talk to her? what do ur parents think of the situation?
  • hi thanks for your replies, to your question upsy, our mum died few yrs ago n we have different dads who we dont really bother with, so really we just have each other. i spoke to her today n she sticks by wat she said, and she says i can go with her now! i just know its the aftercare that will be the worst, this will kill her. shes too scared to say no to them! and i will be there after! thanks again xx
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