I must say in response to the whole anti other people's beliefs, I hope you are never in the position to judge someone on this kind of issue. To make such a decision is nothing like murder, and while I would not suggest for a second any mummy should be needlessly allowed to die in childbirth or any person, some people do (myself included) believe that there is more than just this life. I believe in reincarnation. I believe I have met my children before, and will meet them again. While I have no belief which would ever stop them receiving medical treatment, I can hypothesis that perhaps if you did not see this life as being the only chance anyone had then maybe you wouldn't see this idea (because we are at present delving into a hypothetical situation) as quite so "disgusting". Perhaps I am wrong.
One thing I do query, if you can deem other people's beliefs so wrong what would you say to someone spinning the coin? Perhaps your intolerance of other people could be viewed as quite harmful to your children? Ever watch the movie "American history x" intolerance and lack of understanding can cause unnecessary amounts of hurt and death.
Please do not take this to be my saying you should not post your opinions, in fact thank you, for it has given me a great deal to think about and has allowed a chance to re look at some very important and fundamental views in my life.
Calm down ladies please, it's not worth getting so worked up about...it really isn't. People are going to believe what THEY want to believe not matter how much you try to persuade them. I would also like to add the the topic of religion is BY FAR the largest cause of death to humanity in the history of man kind. So what's the point talking about it on here? xxx
Sorry ladies I wouldnt normally get involved but PLEASE PLEASE stop pushing each other. This was a sensitive subject to begin with THE SUBJECT BEING A LO THAT MAY/MAY NOT NEED HELP AND A FRIEND WHO THOUGHT BEST TO CALL SS FOR THAT HELP. That in its self is a huge subject and these days as I said a sensitive one. I know we all have views but do we really need to turn things into such a tense descussion(sp?)
JW will be what they will be and so too will catholics or Muslims etc. They will never change their beliefs and neither should any of you but do we need to argue and Bi*ch about it. It is a huge, massive subject, with so many different cultures and the cause for so much heartache and sadness in our world.(and happeness too) Do we need it on BE???????????
Sorry but it was kind of shocking after reading some posts on here.
please lets not make this into an arguement, everyone likes to add their opinions and if you dont agree just go straight past it. The point has been made now that not everyone agrees with emma can we not just leave it at that? I must say i do agree with emmalou that no body should have the right to stop a child from living when all that has to be done is a blood transfusion, it perhaps isn't the best place to discuss this view but i stick by my opinion aswell as everybody else.
Anyway, to get back to the original topic of the thread,i think you should have spoken more to your "friend" rather than calling social services, you maybe could have even had a word with your hv and asked them to pop in and offer her some help if need be. As for saying your hv is useless, can you not ask for a different one?
im hoping you are not honestly gonna keep this to yourself what if she speaks to you about it? Are you going to plead ignorance and pretend not to know anything about the call? I think it is a bit low for you to go behind her back like that. If the child was being abused then i could understand but you clearly said she's not. I know we all have to be extra observant with what goes on in this world with innocent children but in this case i think you did make the wrong decision.
well said yummy mummy and babs3 we have all expressed opinions on this yet some people have turned it into a personal attack on Emmalou who has quite rightly stuck to her comments and has not reacted to the posts which have been written to provoke her into an argument!
religion is a powerful thing emmalou and if you dont believe then fine but its a way of life for other people. They are doing it for what they believe is the best interests for their child. As far as I know - If they have someone elses blood they are not pure so when they die they cannot enter heaven. You may think "what a load of shit" and thats fine, its your opinion. But as far as they are concerned they are doing it for the best.
Funny how you thought i was talking about you tho Joanne!! hhmmm!! This is just one of your quite patronising and provoking posts! in my opinion of course!
Darling try to read it properly, I don't need your pity because I get enough. Is that so difficult to understand? I also have no bitterness, where do you get your opinions from? Again insinuating and being presumptuous. I don't agree with your views so it's not arguing is it? And before you answer that, no it isn't. I'm not sure why people jump to the conclusion that if someone doesn't agree then they are arguing and take it as a personal offense. It's debating btw I don't agree and will say, so it's turned into a debate or is that still arguing to some in their opinion?
i stand by whalemummy and what she did. there are too many trusting people about these days, and too many vunerable children, and if you have nothing to hide, then the support should be welcomed. i know it is hurtful, and if a neighbour did that to me, then yes i would be hurt, but i would also face them and ask why, or maybe (like hedgie) explain the situation if there is some form of medical reason for their concern. if she is a single mum, on low wage or supported by our dwindling social care system, then she obviously needs help, and some people are too stubborn to admit to family or friends that they need help, so a non-judgemental stranger may be easier for her to open up to. i just hope she gets sorted and her little girl is fit and healthy
I think we have to remind ourselves that this facility (chat forum) is for support and ideas. The way some members have spoken to 'whalemummy' has left me very shocked. Not to mention any names. If you cannot control your emotions in the heat of the moment, maybe take time out before you reply. I guess what I am saying is its okay to have an opposing view, but I think we should all have the courtesy to express our views politely and calmly. We have no right to upset people intentionally on this network site.
'Whalemummy', I stick by my original comment and I hope you can trust in your decision. I personally beleive it was the right one to make.
I wouldn't for a moment expect to change your views EmmaLou, but of course as people in general we grow, learn and evaluate, and I expect your strong reaction comes from the same spot my strong reaction to the initial subject of this post, which was "must protect my babies" with every ounce of mother bear instinct I have. Mind saying that taking a mother bears cubs or sending in ss is likely to make her want to take your head off, not say "ah, so glad you thought of me..." so two sides to every coin.
sorry to gatecrash but......oh my god I really hope that this has a good outcome for the little one and your friendship with the mother cos if not it may be the end of that little one and she will be the only one to suffer. It must have been hard for you to do it, but to be honest if you, her friends and health visitors cannot get through to help her how the hell are social services supposed to without taking the child away??? After the really crap press thats going on about social services and child care workers I really hope that they don't go in all guns blazing and make things worse.(if they do anything at all) If lo really is poorly then lets hope she gets well and her mum gets the help she may need. Sorry my comments arnt very possitive but If someone called social services on me and I found out who it was I'd probably murder them.(even though i've got nothing to hide but thats not the point) Please if you can, let us know if you hear how the lo is......afterall thats what this is about isnt it??
the chances are they will go in all guns blazing at the moment , they did with me when i was little there was a big thing with the social services and them not getting help to children that really needed it so when my mum made faulse aligations agains my dad they took me from him and put me in care, they never could find proof of anything and even when the courts told SS to put me back in my dads care they never did intill 7 years later the courts said it had been to long for me to go back now and would do me more damage than good. and all because they messed up before. now i was lucky the family i was fostered by adpoted me and they are the best i love my family to bits but for a lot of kids this isnt the case as so meany dont even make it to a family just end up in care homes. If it really so hard to get it right it always seems that they go for one extream or the other either not doing enough when needed, or doing a lot when nothing is needed.
Why is it highjacking or going off topic if a post progresses through a series of issues? Why do people say get back on topic? Are we still at school, "behave stay on task!" Conversations naturally flow right? So is it wrong if a post naturally flows here and there?.
Donna&Poppy and Sara im glad i am not the only one on here who thinks it is unacceptable to let your own child die. I was beginning to think i was in the minority. I think we are lucky that there is some common sense left in this country in that a lot of these people who refuse to let their children have blood transfusions usually get their wishes overruled by a court and thank god for that. But i guess in some emergency situations it is not possible and some children do die because of this terrible belief. I remember when i posted before about them knocking on my door all the time i read your response about your father Sara and i think that must have been bloody awful for you. I personally dont think id ever be ale to forgive him and really admire you that you have xxx
My husbands family are all jehovas witness im not and he is not but he was raised as one, and iv told him that if any of our children ever needed one they would get it and he tried to stop it i would leave him there and then as personaly i think as a mother it is my job to do everything in my power to protect my child and by refusing i would be abusing and neglecting my child. Thankfully he feels the same as me but dont know what his family would say, his neice has problems with her blood so has to be monitored when in labour so her blood dosnt contaminate the babes, or it will need a transfusion and she says her self that although its what they believe in shes not sure she could refuse it.
more to the point i think it would make you a bad person if you sat back and watched what you thought was a poorly treated child stay that way,just because they are a friend does not mean they cant be a bad parent,i'm not talking about your friend in particular,just ppl in general but chances are your friend would have just argued her point and not listened anyway,better to do it as a friend than fall out then do it,only then do i think it would have looked malicious
i think you a big person for doing it and plenty childrens lives would be saved if things were reported more often,i think it is the malicious ppl that waste the SS time who are to blame
Replies
I must say in response to the whole anti other people's beliefs, I hope you are never in the position to judge someone on this kind of issue. To make such a decision is nothing like murder, and while I would not suggest for a second any mummy should be needlessly allowed to die in childbirth or any person, some people do (myself included) believe that there is more than just this life. I believe in reincarnation. I believe I have met my children before, and will meet them again. While I have no belief which would ever stop them receiving medical treatment, I can hypothesis that perhaps if you did not see this life as being the only chance anyone had then maybe you wouldn't see this idea (because we are at present delving into a hypothetical situation) as quite so "disgusting". Perhaps I am wrong.
One thing I do query, if you can deem other people's beliefs so wrong what would you say to someone spinning the coin? Perhaps your intolerance of other people could be viewed as quite harmful to your children? Ever watch the movie "American history x" intolerance and lack of understanding can cause unnecessary amounts of hurt and death.
Please do not take this to be my saying you should not post your opinions, in fact thank you, for it has given me a great deal to think about and has allowed a chance to re look at some very important and fundamental views in my life.
That in its self is a huge subject and these days as I said a sensitive one.
I know we all have views but do we really need to turn things into such a tense descussion(sp?)
JW will be what they will be and so too will catholics or Muslims etc. They will never change their beliefs and neither should any of you but do we need to argue and Bi*ch about it. It is a huge, massive subject, with so many different cultures and the cause for so much heartache and sadness in our world.(and happeness too) Do we need it on BE???????????
Sorry but it was kind of shocking after reading some posts on here.
sorry
please lets not make this into an arguement, everyone likes to add their opinions and if you dont agree just go straight past it. The point has been made now that not everyone agrees with emma can we not just leave it at that? I must say i do agree with emmalou that no body should have the right to stop a child from living when all that has to be done is a blood transfusion, it perhaps isn't the best place to discuss this view but i stick by my opinion aswell as everybody else.
Anyway, to get back to the original topic of the thread,i think you should have spoken more to your "friend" rather than calling social services, you maybe could have even had a word with your hv and asked them to pop in and offer her some help if need be. As for saying your hv is useless, can you not ask for a different one?
im hoping you are not honestly gonna keep this to yourself what if she speaks to you about it? Are you going to plead ignorance and pretend not to know anything about the call? I think it is a bit low for you to go behind her back like that. If the child was being abused then i could understand but you clearly said she's not. I know we all have to be extra observant with what goes on in this world with innocent children but in this case i think you did make the wrong decision.
charlie x
I am a little over senstive though lol (AF has arrived!!!)
xx
This is just one of your quite patronising and provoking posts! in my opinion of course!
Darling try to read it properly, I don't need your pity because I get enough. Is that so difficult to understand?
I also have no bitterness, where do you get your opinions from? Again insinuating and being presumptuous.
I don't agree with your views so it's not arguing is it? And before you answer that, no it isn't.
I'm not sure why people jump to the conclusion that if someone doesn't agree then they are arguing and take it as a personal offense.
It's debating btw I don't agree and will say, so it's turned into a debate or is that still arguing to some in their opinion?
'Whalemummy', I stick by my original comment and I hope you can trust in your decision. I personally beleive it was the right one to make.
Kindest regsrda to you.
Rachel
It must have been hard for you to do it, but to be honest if you, her friends and health visitors cannot get through to help her how the hell are social services supposed to without taking the child away???
After the really crap press thats going on about social services and child care workers I really hope that they don't go in all guns blazing and make things worse.(if they do anything at all)
If lo really is poorly then lets hope she gets well and her mum gets the help she may need.
Sorry my comments arnt very possitive but If someone called social services on me and I found out who it was I'd probably murder them.(even though i've got nothing to hide but thats not the point)
Please if you can, let us know if you hear how the lo is......afterall thats what this is about isnt it??
the chances are they will go in all guns blazing at the moment , they did with me when i was little there was a big thing with the social services and them not getting help to children that really needed it so when my mum made faulse aligations agains my dad they took me from him and put me in care, they never could find proof of anything and even when the courts told SS to put me back in my dads care they never did intill 7 years later the courts said it had been to long for me to go back now and would do me more damage than good. and all because they messed up before. now i was lucky the family i was fostered by adpoted me and they are the best i love my family to bits but for a lot of kids this isnt the case as so meany dont even make it to a family just end up in care homes. If it really so hard to get it right it always seems that they go for one extream or the other either not doing enough when needed, or doing a lot when nothing is needed.
Conversations naturally flow right? So is it wrong if a post naturally flows here and there?.
My husbands family are all jehovas witness im not and he is not but he was raised as one, and iv told him that if any of our children ever needed one they would get it and he tried to stop it i would leave him there and then as personaly i think as a mother it is my job to do everything in my power to protect my child and by refusing i would be abusing and neglecting my child. Thankfully he feels the same as me but dont know what his family would say, his neice has problems with her blood so has to be monitored when in labour so her blood dosnt contaminate the babes, or it will need a transfusion and she says her self that although its what they believe in shes not sure she could refuse it.
you just keep proving my point lol believe me i'm not the immature one here!
[Modified by: SamanthaJ23 on December 07, 2008 07:52 PM]
i think you a big person for doing it and plenty childrens lives would be saved if things were reported more often,i think it is the malicious ppl that waste the SS time who are to blame