i dont think it's ever good to refer to some foods as treats. it gives the wrong message to say bad food is a treat. i am not saying never allow children to have bad foods as this will make them more attactive, but not to refer to mcdonalds / crisps / chocolates as treats, or give them as rewards. it doesnt create a healthy attitude to food. and tbh a lot of foods that are bad for you will not make you feel great afterwards anyway, so if it isnt treated as some great thing to have on special occasions it might lose appeal anyway.
back to the original post, i would have allowed her the biscuit of they were what was being offered. i did however, have a disagreement with my mum last week about giving rich tea biscuits!! i said no as it's not an appropriate weaning food. but dd is not 6 months yet so it really was a pointless argument.
[Modified by: Calleigh on September 13, 2010 08:48 PM]
No, i dont agree. If the parent have decided thta this is what they want for their child, whatever the reason, then that is their decision. When the child is much older, then I think your idea would be more appropriate. As long as its explained well, i think it is fine. Children are always going to want things they cant have, as are we all, I think as parents its our job to decide what is right and wrong for them until they are old enough to do so for themselves.
Also, you did actually say that you dont agree with the hcildren being bought up vegetarian or is that not what you meant? I just wondereed why...its a very inflamatory statment to put on a chatroom.
I agree that children can be allowed treats, but that these should be under the parents control. Children at the group may have been about to have their lunch or tea, or as in the OP story have a healthy snack waiting for the,m. They may have already had a treat. The point is, that the people offering dont know what each child has/hasnt had and the wishes of the parents. It seems mad to offer things to a young child, as if the parent doent want them to have it for whatever reason, they then have a fight on their hands! By all means make biccis available but just dont waft them under the childrens nose.
I agree with you there Calleigh, i always try and make sure that we don't refer to 'treat' type foods as such. Dd1 is nearly 6 now and I try and be very careful about how I talk about food and not to 'force' her to eat her dinner etc. I think we are doing pretty well so far as she seems to understand what a balanced diet is, but it is a minefield trying to avoid food issues.
I'm a bit on both sides tbh. Mainly I think everything in moderation. We go to groups where biscuits are available, and I do let ds have one (and only one)plain biscuit when he asks - but because I know he has a biscuit on these occasions I don't give him biscuits at home, and he is 2 now and will ask for what he wants and is aware of what others are having. They are never handed out though and I might have a problem if they were -I do think you should always ask the parent before giving a young child food. I think ti partly depends on the age of the child too - like I say, mine is 2 (I do have a baby too, not really gatecrashing!) and more aware, I didn't give him biscuits when he was a baby and I don't see the point in giving such things before they are old enough to ask for them - they'll have plenty of sweet things when they're older - but I also agree with not making them taboo or treats particularly. We've only been going the these groups since he was 18 months. However, although personally I would have let him have the biscuit, I do agree with the other mum that if she didn't want her dd to have one, she shouldn't let her just to avoid the tantrum, or the child will very quickly learn from that.
Actually, we go to one group/playcentre where they do fab homemade cake - and free rich tea biscuits - and ds will ask me when I'm getting cake so he can have a biscuit! - and I'd much rather him have a rich tea biscuit than chocolate cake (I know I have double standards and eat rubbish myself!)
i think Vegetarianism in children who are too young to know any different is fine, but to tell a child who is old enough to make simple decisions (what to wear, toys to play with, programmes to watch etc) why should the child not be given the choice to try meat? Especially as it is in the house for him to see and watch his daddy eating it. It isnt for religious reasons, or even for animal welfare beliefs, in this case it is purely because his mum did not like meat!
As a parent i feel very strongly to let my child be a free spirit, he has his own personality and within reason i will be happy for him to make decisions, as he grows up he will most certainly have different opinions than me but i can not expect him to want the same things as me. i believe is i was to curb my childs ability to have his own opinions i would be failing as a parent.
i think Vegetarianism in children who are too young to know any different is fine, but to tell a child who is old enough to make simple decisions (what to wear, toys to play with, programmes to watch etc) why should the child not be given the choice to try meat? Especially as it is in the house for him to see and watch his daddy eating it.
It sounds as if your friend has some issues with food. I dont really want to comment as I dont knwo them or what their real reasons are, but I dont think there is anything hugely wrong with not allowing him meat or biscuit or whatever. I hope he has opportunitys for making his own descisions in other areas of life, im sure he'll be fine.
i teach a child how has never eaten meat. its not a big deal to her. she is now 16 and doesnt understand why people choose to eat a dead animal. if you saw the food you eat from where they 'live' to your plate, the whole process, you might disagree that children have the right to eat meat.
and saying that a child who is old enough to make decisions should be allowed to!!! no, that doesnt make sense. do you let them do what they want just because they want to? you referred to choosing what tv programmes to watch. im sorry but i have taught so many children who are allowed to watch shameless and it's just not appropriate. and what toys to play with? what if they choose to play with a ps3 for a few hours every day? wouldnt you say on, get outdoors, so something active? as you really should. parents need to be parents, and that means doing what is best for your child, not avoiding tantrums as the child knows what they want.
i really see no harm in raising a child vegetarian. but i would expect the parent to explai why to the child.
"if you saw the food you eat from where they 'live' to your plate, the whole process, you might disagree that children have the right to eat meat."
Calleigh - I think you are wrong, find me a farmer/butcher who doesn't eat meat - I certainly don't know a single one and I know plenty!
This debate seems to have gone off track and I think shockedmummy has a right to her opinion without being questioned like this. Personally I think the points she raises are valid and people ought to get off their high horses. Rant over, I'm off mine now LOL xx
Defo got abit out of hand agree lawso. Can I just add before I back out of the debate, that my husband is a qualified butcher he worked in a butchers for years before a career change, part of his training included him going to slaughter houses to see how the meat got from A to B - from Field to Shop. He is a meat eater, he loves meat, and I too know the process and although I'm not keen on the way it is done, and prefer to ignore it, I still eat meat.
I know my DS will be happy, because ill guide him, and teach him what I think is best for him, along with my guidence I hope his choices are the best for him. I will always allow him to make decisions, and If I as a parent dont agree then I will make this pretty clear. To me a parent isnt about putting your foot down - point blank, its about listening to your child and helping them with what they decide that is what is best for them. Not asking for a debate here, this is just my opinion.
I think a debate can happen (which it has) without it being out if contol or 'jumping on high horses'. No ones horse us high. They are just different and it's a bit unfair to come in and say such things, THEn give your opinion and then turn and run!
Let's have a debate- yes it's ok!!!! It doesn't have to get nasty!
i would have let her have the biscuit one every now and again wont hurt, on the vegetarian thing i am a vegetarian and so is hubby and we bring our girls up to eat meat and fish plus vegetarian food when they are old enough to choose to continue eating meat and fish or not then thats their choice
I thought babies need a high fat high calorie diet, of course that doesn't mean cakes and biscuits all day but I was under the impression that some sugar and fat is actually good for them. A rice cake is crap nutrition when a baby has been charging around for hours at a baby group learning new things and using up vast amounts of energy, not to mention still growing their little body. Sometimes people feed their baby like they feed themselves but babies need a different sort of diet. I'd say your friend is going to make her baby feel like the odd one out in groups if she keeps this up and that's much more damaging than a rich tea, which actually her body needs in any case. Poor baby!!! Oh and just wanted to say I have noticed sometimes that some fat mummys (yes I did just say that...duck!) restrict their babys diets and I wonder if that's because they have issues around controlling their own eating. :
[Modified by: dollywotsit on September 14, 2010 06:11 AM]
Ems101 - I didn't mean anything nasty and I love a good debate, I just think you were wrong to pick fault with shockedmummy as you did. If it was that important you ought to have created another post rather than hi-jack this one. I'm not one to do a runner but did need to sleep, would happily carry this debate on in a separate post, should you feel the need xx
Hi I run a babyg group and attend a few. It is the 'norm' to get them to sit down and have a drink and a biscuit (rich tea finger ). The parents know the format and if they are not happy i suggest they take lo out or to the side and offer them their own alternative. I don't see why the majority should suffer for the minority. Once they start school/nursery they sit down and have a snack time. This is getting them ready for that.
One rich tea once or twice a week is not going to harm them. Honest!!
Obviously some mums have their beliefs and that is fine. Its not child cruelty to say they can't have a biscuit. I just think its best to choose your battles. To have a tantrum to deal with over something as silly as a biscuit seems extreme. i save my fights for the things that in my eyes are important. Behaviour, manners, eating their meals etc.. if you fight with them all the time over everything then it is harder to install the things that really matter.
My fridge has choc, biscuits and my cupboard have crisps. The kids know to ask but they can enjoy things in moderation. They are NEVER a treat. They are part of a balanced diet. Before anyone shouts me down I have 2 teens too and they were brought up the same and they are trim, slim and very very healthy!
I had a 'friend' who would not let her child eat anything remotely considered unhealthy. He was 3 and had NEVER had crisps, sweets, meat, choc, icecream etc etc... he was raised on an organic veg diet. he was the most miserable little boy I have ever ever met. He cried always (was probably hungry). We all dreaded his parties as our kids would eat nothing as it all looked like poo tbh!!! I am not exagerating..I never saw him smile once! She would take him out of play groups at snack times and smacked his hand once in my company (never again when she saw the glare i gave her) because he DARED ask for a biscuit. Poor wee thing.... There are beliefs that you are doing the best for your child but to me this was a case of her passing her radical food beliefs on to a young child. She had another boy before she left here and no doubt he is in the UK somewhere just as miserable...
Did she hijack the post? I believe the op raised vegetarianism as an issue so surely other readers have a right to an opinion as part of a healthy debate?
In relation to the op I think each to their own. If your friend would have only given the biscuit to avoid a 10 minute tantrum when it's not what she wanted for her child I think that would have been worse. Personally I wouldn't have an issue with a 13 month old child having one biscuit. X
omg its only a biscuit, whats the big deal???? I got a chocolate biscuit everytime i went on my potty thats how my mum potty trained me and im FAR from obese!!!
My dd has biscuits, usually 1 a day, i really dont see the harm, but she also has fruit and veg everyday so what does it matter.You know when they get to school they will buy and eat what the hell they want anyway xx
Replies
back to the original post, i would have allowed her the biscuit of they were what was being offered. i did however, have a disagreement with my mum last week about giving rich tea biscuits!! i said no as it's not an appropriate weaning food. but dd is not 6 months yet so it really was a pointless argument.
[Modified by: Calleigh on September 13, 2010 08:48 PM]
Also, you did actually say that you dont agree with the hcildren being bought up vegetarian or is that not what you meant? I just wondereed why...its a very inflamatory statment to put on a chatroom.
I agree that children can be allowed treats, but that these should be under the parents control. Children at the group may have been about to have their lunch or tea, or as in the OP story have a healthy snack waiting for the,m. They may have already had a treat. The point is, that the people offering dont know what each child has/hasnt had and the wishes of the parents. It seems mad to offer things to a young child, as if the parent doent want them to have it for whatever reason, they then have a fight on their hands! By all means make biccis available but just dont waft them under the childrens nose.
Its a no brainer to me!
However, although personally I would have let him have the biscuit, I do agree with the other mum that if she didn't want her dd to have one, she shouldn't let her just to avoid the tantrum, or the child will very quickly learn from that.
Actually, we go to one group/playcentre where they do fab homemade cake - and free rich tea biscuits - and ds will ask me when I'm getting cake so he can have a biscuit! - and I'd much rather him have a rich tea biscuit than chocolate cake (I know I have double standards and eat rubbish myself!)
As a parent i feel very strongly to let my child be a free spirit, he has his own personality and within reason i will be happy for him to make decisions, as he grows up he will most certainly have different opinions than me but i can not expect him to want the same things as me. i believe is i was to curb my childs ability to have his own opinions i would be failing as a parent.
I totally agree.
and saying that a child who is old enough to make decisions should be allowed to!!! no, that doesnt make sense. do you let them do what they want just because they want to? you referred to choosing what tv programmes to watch. im sorry but i have taught so many children who are allowed to watch shameless and it's just not appropriate. and what toys to play with? what if they choose to play with a ps3 for a few hours every day? wouldnt you say on, get outdoors, so something active? as you really should. parents need to be parents, and that means doing what is best for your child, not avoiding tantrums as the child knows what they want.
i really see no harm in raising a child vegetarian. but i would expect the parent to explai why to the child.
Calleigh - I think you are wrong, find me a farmer/butcher who doesn't eat meat - I certainly don't know a single one and I know plenty!
This debate seems to have gone off track and I think shockedmummy has a right to her opinion without being questioned like this. Personally I think the points she raises are valid and people ought to get off their high horses. Rant over, I'm off mine now LOL xx
I know my DS will be happy, because ill guide him, and teach him what I think is best for him, along with my guidence I hope his choices are the best for him. I will always allow him to make decisions, and If I as a parent dont agree then I will make this pretty clear. To me a parent isnt about putting your foot down - point blank, its about listening to your child and helping them with what they decide that is what is best for them. Not asking for a debate here, this is just my opinion.
she has healthy snacks. when she is older to understand then we will allow her things in moderation.
Let's have a debate- yes it's ok!!!! It doesn't have to get nasty!
[Modified by: dollywotsit on September 14, 2010 06:11 AM]
I run a babyg group and attend a few. It is the 'norm' to get them to sit down and have a drink and a biscuit (rich tea finger ). The parents know the format and if they are not happy i suggest they take lo out or to the side and offer them their own alternative. I don't see why the majority should suffer for the minority.
Once they start school/nursery they sit down and have a snack time. This is getting them ready for that.
One rich tea once or twice a week is not going to harm them. Honest!!
Obviously some mums have their beliefs and that is fine. Its not child cruelty to say they can't have a biscuit. I just think its best to choose your battles. To have a tantrum to deal with over something as silly as a biscuit seems extreme. i save my fights for the things that in my eyes are important. Behaviour, manners, eating their meals etc.. if you fight with them all the time over everything then it is harder to install the things that really matter.
My fridge has choc, biscuits and my cupboard have crisps. The kids know to ask but they can enjoy things in moderation. They are NEVER a treat. They are part of a balanced diet. Before anyone shouts me down I have 2 teens too and they were brought up the same and they are trim, slim and very very healthy!
I had a 'friend' who would not let her child eat anything remotely considered unhealthy. He was 3 and had NEVER had crisps, sweets, meat, choc, icecream etc etc... he was raised on an organic veg diet. he was the most miserable little boy I have ever ever met. He cried always (was probably hungry). We all dreaded his parties as our kids would eat nothing as it all looked like poo tbh!!! I am not exagerating..I never saw him smile once! She would take him out of play groups at snack times and smacked his hand once in my company (never again when she saw the glare i gave her) because he DARED ask for a biscuit. Poor wee thing.... There are beliefs that you are doing the best for your child but to me this was a case of her passing her radical food beliefs on to a young child. She had another boy before she left here and no doubt he is in the UK somewhere just as miserable...
d xx
In relation to the op I think each to their own. If your friend would have only given the biscuit to avoid a 10 minute tantrum when it's not what she wanted for her child I think that would have been worse. Personally I wouldn't have an issue with a 13 month old child having one biscuit. X
My dd has biscuits, usually 1 a day, i really dont see the harm, but she also has fruit and veg everyday so what does it matter.You know when they get to school they will buy and eat what the hell they want anyway
xxx