It wasn't a direct reference to abortion, it was more your lack of compassion towards children with special needs and how you feel you have the right not to care for such a child.
Hi I am from due in jan 09 and pregnancy. I came onto this board as I like to read other people experiences. I am due my second baby in jan 09. Like most other parents me and my husband have talked about what tests we would like, the possible outcomes ect. anyway we are having the NT scan at 12 weeks and said that depending on results we would decide from there what to do but one thing we are set on is that we will have this baby regardless if the baby were to have downs or not. it would be a case of being as informed as possible. This is our baby, a very wanted child and already loved so much. I am only 24 and I cared for a gentleman with downs for 5 years everyday of the 5 years, I would help him shower, make meals, get to places,have a social life and learn to talk to people using simple language and I loved every minute of it and would go back in a heartbeat. I would not see it as a chore to help anyone that needed it and espcially not my own child. with regards to the post who said about being hit or headbutted by a 40 year old with downs, i think who ever has experienced this needs to seek help from the many health professionals who are there to support you and help you. (unless of course that was said to try and scare people!) anyway I have been truely inspried by the vast marjority of you and although it has made me sad to think how much I miss the man I helped look after I hope anyone who reads this will see and understand how much of a blessing a child is to have, regardless of having downs.
Being in the situation myself where I have to have CVS today (its like an amnio but earlier in pregnancy) I do understand both sides of this argument. The thing is its not as black and white as it seems from the outside or from within the situation. I thought it would be easy for me to terminate if there was something genetically wrong with my baby but honestly its the hardest descision I will ever have to make and I feel like a murderer making the descision. I am pro choice I believe women should be able to have an abortion if they wish but I really wanted this baby and now I have to face the fact if the results of my CVS come back with a positive result for an untreatable genetic problem then I am in a siutuation where I feel I would have no choice but to terminate.
I too agree that its all fun and games when they are babies but as adults these people can be aggressive and very strong and I can not stand the idea of having to put my child in a home when I am 70 and can no longer care for them it would be a fate worse than death in my book. Sitting around like a vege when clearly from what has been said here these people are not is just cruel. Plus other children can be so cruel and I was bullied badly enough and I was a normal kid, I can't imagine what a disabled/special needs child would have to go through. There were times when I was being bullied I felt like I would rather be dead I can't imagine how a special needs child feels but it must be devistating. At the end of the day I have two other children to care for and having a disabled child just would not be an option. In dreamland I could totally just ignore any result I got and have this baby no matter what but I don't live in the land of lollypops and fairytales I live in the real world where I have two children on this Earth right now who need me and would not get the time and attention they deserve if all my time is taken up with a disabled child. Its a very sad situation and I am miserable about it but its what I personally have to do.
Still I am in awe of mums that can take are of special needs kids and they are such special children which is what makes me feel bad about my descision. Good luck to you all and I do see both sides of this very clearly.
Oh by the way I would ask what percentage chance 1 in 20 is I mean that doesn't seem too bad you have 19 chances your baby is fine. I have a 90% chance there is a problem with my baby and that makes sense to me there is not much chance things are right, but 1 in 20 tells me nothing. See if you can get a percentage somehow, it will help with your descisions better.
Libranaster....... Wow! So really instead of having my wonderful, strongwilled, happy to give everything a go despite his disabilities I should have just got rid of him sharpish? Everyone gets bullied as you said and I hope my son doesn't but at the same time if he is I hope that I do a good enough job at raising him to know himself that he is just as good, if not better than these ignorant idiots and just get on with it! My son is my world and yes I wouldn't wish him to have the problems he had but I would never have even considered terminating him just because he's not perfect ( I didn't know btw) because to me he is perfect in every possible way and he is my beautiful little boy!
waiting4baby if I was the only one this would effect personally I probably would be more inclined to consider keeping this baby. Seriosuly its not about the baby not being perfect. For starters my partner very strongly does not feel he can handle a disabled child and I suffer from depression and anxiety probelms that I have to deal with every day. Also my son has learning delays and needs alot of attention that he wont be able to get if he is trying to compete with another special needs child that may need even more care than he does. If I have difficulty coping at times with my son who just has learning delays could you imagine me trying to juggle a disabled child? Believe me its probably more abolut me not being perfect than this child. It is an Earth shattering descision but I am not going to force my partner to go through this.
I do hope you can give son the tools and skills to have enough self esteem to ignore bullies and ignorant children and adults. I have had my son in special needs programs before kinder to help him get up to speed for school and have spent time with special needs kids so I am not making a descision from ignorance or taking it lightly. To be honest to be attacked when I am so raw about it is upsetting and just as upsetting as you thinking I was saying you should have gotten rid of your child. I don;t want to terminate my pregnancy but I am not the only one in my family.
I am not looking for a fight but it is a individual descision made on the factors of how people's individual family dynamic goes and besides its not just down syndrome I am talkiing about some results that could come back from this test could mean my child wont even live a year after birth anyway and would have failing organs and be so brain damaged it couldn't feed itself or anything. I am not saying children with slight disabilities should be killed off like vermin but if your child might die within a year anyway and its going to be the most painful year of its life and if the child lives past that it faces a future as a pratical vegetable honestly as a parent I need to be merciful. I wouldn't want that for myself I have told my family if I am going to wake up brain damaged after an accident you pull the plug so if I wouldn't want it for myself how can I expect to put someone else through it that is my opinion.
I expect your son is a gorgeous little boy and I am glad he is not letting whatever diagnosis he has had stop him from having a go and putting in 100% of himself. Obviously you are an awsome mum who has given him the courage to do that.
What I individually want in my situation I am afraid only counts for a part fo the descision here and I am very conflicted thus why I have been coming here I am hoping with a more educated insight into parenting children with different disabilities I can make an informed descision as to whether to terminate as I think personally my partner is being too black and white about it. I mean the baby was moving about on the scan like any nomral child so I am wondering how disabled this child is really gonna be. I mean the scans look normal besides this 6mm NT gap. I probably should make a topic for myself so I can get some feedback about what mum's on here think about it too because its very hard to see my unborn child as disabled/special needs if its doing all the right things in the womb.
By the way waiting4baby I bet you would not have terminated if you knew before your son was born anyway atleast by the sounds of it you wouldn't have. Some people have been very immovable on their opinion in this I realise and I am still conflicted about whether I will teminate. Since I can see both sides here its not an easy descision for me nor should it be. Although I do think every individual should be able to make their choice I also have to say people who have not been in the situation where they know they are going to have a disabled or special needs baby while pregnant do talk about it like it is so easy just to off your baby. I used to think that too that it was an easy descision but its not. No test can tell you how disabled your baby is going to be by their condition. They may be like waiting4baby's son and well enough to fight the odds and tell the doctor to shove his diagnosis where the sun don't shine. When it comes to downs kids the severity of the illnesses they may have or their mental handicapp can vary too much for terminating to be an easy descision. I think downs is the most nasty illness in that way as some people's life expectancies get cut short by it and some people can't control their emotions or reactions but others can and you just don't know what your child will be like. Its a real gamble but I do think people's descisions need to be respected on both sides. Its very easy for someone with one of these beautiful kids to say well how could you terminate and its also so easy for someone who has never even had a chance of having a downs baby to say oh well we will just execute them for coming out of the mold wonky.
I have to say though it is good to see other people who feel as strongly about their opinions as me. Waiting4baby I really hope you don't think I meant you should never have had your son. There was no way to know my son would have the learning delays he has and I would love him if he had of come out with four arms and a tail it does upset me to think you would think I meant that. You are obvuiously a strong mum and a good mum who loves her son.
I've reread what you and I wrote and I am really sorry you took it as an attack, I focused on a small point you wrote and although I do believe bullying shouldn't be a factor in a decision I'm sorry I came across as picking on you. I don't agree with abortion but at the same time am well aware that Boone has the right to judge a persons decision as you really can't say what you would do until in such a position! I certainly hope I never have to find out and know I am very lucky that in the scheme of things my son isn't that bad at all. I would love to say I'm doing a brilliant job but my son is only 18mths and unawre he is not 'normal' so only time will tell how well be copes. He is visually impaired although the cause and diagnosis are still unknown and more things are cropping up as he fails to meet milestones. I am sorry again, I also don't want to pick a fight, I am wriiting this on a phone so if again I have come accross badly/blunt please understand it's not my intention. With regards to your situation I wish you all the best and as said have no right to judge and please make sure you don't let others judgements effect you as it will only make it harder. Take care
I just hoped you didn't take what I said the wrong way waiting4baby since in my opinion some people have been a little cold about the subject of keeping a special needs baby. I personally don't believe in abortions after 12 weeks and this is where my descision gets hard because it will probably be after 12 weeks before I get all my results and it does seem wrong and hard. I am really over sensitive right now so I can see how I would take what you said the wrong way. I am taking what veryone says the wrong way right now its so tough. Thankyou for your advice I am trying not to let others judgements effect me the one paerson I can't ignore is my partner because its his baby too and his judgements can be quite upsetting. He just doesn't understand and thats hard he said today to me that I shouldn't have been up half the night worrying something that is out of my control. ARG! doesn't he get that terminating this pregnancy means I am controlling whether me baby lives or dies. It is in my control! I am so frustrated and upset. I might have the results to my test tomorrow and I am freaking out. I am going to be an emotional nut case until then.
Hee hee, I only wish he was walking properly!!! Is walking holding onto hands, too blooming lazy (and that's the boy in him, not the Down's!!) to do it himself! Am glad that you have such a positive attitude - you could be completely morose and depressed if it did happen to you, but that's not going to help anyone, least of all your ickle one. Well that's how we see it anyway!! And yes you do end up spending hours of your life searching for parking spaces at the hospital, and going for appt after appt, but its so worth it to see the progress they make against the odds. And its opened up our social life no end!! Let us know how you get on when you are lucky enough to fall pregnant again - and maybe you will get to join this very special club!!
Hi MelanieJ, just wanted to say a huge congratulations on the birth of your extra special baby!! Glad that he sounds to be doing well, hope you are doing OK too - was he a surprise package or had you found out beforehand? Either way, you are now a proud member of a very exclusive club! And if he brings you as much joy as George has brought us, then you have some great times ahead! Sarah & George (now 18 months!)
Sorry, I'm gatecrashing but I saw from the home page that you had posted Mrs S. How is your gorgeous little man getting on? I saw the last lot of photo's you posted in baby and he's such a gorgeous, happy looking little boy, just seeing your avatar makes me smile. Hope you don't mind me gatecrashing! Kerry xx
Not at all Kerry - nice to hear from you!!! George is doing brilliantly - he's now 18 months old, on the very verge of walking (i.e will stand on his own but not set off - a demon with his push along walker thing, he can actually run with that!) and generally causes havoc!! He is using a few words (able to say the name of his swimming teacher before he said Mummy - GRRRRRRRR!!!) and uses lots of sign language... such as being able to put three signs together, "More, biscuit, please!" (and then says Mumum on the end!!) We just keep being constantly amazed at what he can do, although we are convinced he's got the terrible 2's early, he's a right stubborn little bugger!!! And drama queen doesn't even come close!! Am going to post some recent Facebook pics on the Baby forum - go have a giggle at the naff Halloween outfit!!
Im gategrashing, looking for info about something else but again a topic i feel strongly about for various reasons.
I am a disability social worker and worked for many years in special needs schools, so i guess i have seen the best and worst of lots of children. I understand the struggles parents go through and also how much they love their special children, and how tough and hard it is sometimes to care for them.. mostly down to the struggle of stigma and lack of rescources/ support!
Anyway I am currently 12 weeks pregnant and have just refused the nuchal test as i know i would never have a amino as i would never abort a baby on the basis of disability. (personal choice i know, but like others have said, where does it stop? who gets to play god, and make that decsion? just because a test exists it doesnt make it right). Also after 2 years of infertility, I see the chance of my own child as a blessing, and the idea of trying again to get another 'more perfect' child and very wrong. With regard to the ladies who posted about her fear of having a 'ginger', I want say grow up. It is childish and pretty offensive, particulary on this board.
I have to say that on my own case load prob 50% of the children i worked with developed severe disabilitys after they were born for one reason or another, often when the child is in infancy. When we get pregnant we take risks, who knows what will happen to your child, what illnesses they may have or develop, as they get older they may develop drug habits or mental health problems, we cant forsee what will happen in the future, but as parents we are supposed to love our children unconditionally.
I would like to congratulate the parents on this thread who are doing so well with there own children and such a postive voice. I am not flowering things up and saying caring for a child with disabilties is easy, because it isnt, but it is rewarding in the same way as parenting any child is. It is certainly not the worst thing in the world.
Good luck with your children, I know they will bring lots and love and laughter!
hi guys hope you are all doing well i am currently in the ttc forum but just wanted to let you know i have a little girle with downs sydrome and she is the brightes little star i have ever met! she is 4 this month and is doing great in very good health only has an underactive thyroid am we are sooo lucky. she is going to mainstream school in september and is so bright it is untrue!! how are you all??
Replies
anyway I have been truely inspried by the vast marjority of you and although it has made me sad to think how much I miss the man I helped look after I hope anyone who reads this will see and understand how much of a blessing a child is to have, regardless of having downs.
xx
I too agree that its all fun and games when they are babies but as adults these people can be aggressive and very strong and I can not stand the idea of having to put my child in a home when I am 70 and can no longer care for them it would be a fate worse than death in my book. Sitting around like a vege when clearly from what has been said here these people are not is just cruel. Plus other children can be so cruel and I was bullied badly enough and I was a normal kid, I can't imagine what a disabled/special needs child would have to go through. There were times when I was being bullied I felt like I would rather be dead I can't imagine how a special needs child feels but it must be devistating. At the end of the day I have two other children to care for and having a disabled child just would not be an option. In dreamland I could totally just ignore any result I got and have this baby no matter what but I don't live in the land of lollypops and fairytales I live in the real world where I have two children on this Earth right now who need me and would not get the time and attention they deserve if all my time is taken up with a disabled child. Its a very sad situation and I am miserable about it but its what I personally have to do.
Still I am in awe of mums that can take are of special needs kids and they are such special children which is what makes me feel bad about my descision. Good luck to you all and I do see both sides of this very clearly.
I do hope you can give son the tools and skills to have enough self esteem to ignore bullies and ignorant children and adults. I have had my son in special needs programs before kinder to help him get up to speed for school and have spent time with special needs kids so I am not making a descision from ignorance or taking it lightly. To be honest to be attacked when I am so raw about it is upsetting and just as upsetting as you thinking I was saying you should have gotten rid of your child. I don;t want to terminate my pregnancy but I am not the only one in my family.
I am not looking for a fight but it is a individual descision made on the factors of how people's individual family dynamic goes and besides its not just down syndrome I am talkiing about some results that could come back from this test could mean my child wont even live a year after birth anyway and would have failing organs and be so brain damaged it couldn't feed itself or anything. I am not saying children with slight disabilities should be killed off like vermin but if your child might die within a year anyway and its going to be the most painful year of its life and if the child lives past that it faces a future as a pratical vegetable honestly as a parent I need to be merciful. I wouldn't want that for myself I have told my family if I am going to wake up brain damaged after an accident you pull the plug so if I wouldn't want it for myself how can I expect to put someone else through it that is my opinion.
I expect your son is a gorgeous little boy and I am glad he is not letting whatever diagnosis he has had stop him from having a go and putting in 100% of himself. Obviously you are an awsome mum who has given him the courage to do that.
What I individually want in my situation I am afraid only counts for a part fo the descision here and I am very conflicted thus why I have been coming here I am hoping with a more educated insight into parenting children with different disabilities I can make an informed descision as to whether to terminate as I think personally my partner is being too black and white about it. I mean the baby was moving about on the scan like any nomral child so I am wondering how disabled this child is really gonna be. I mean the scans look normal besides this 6mm NT gap. I probably should make a topic for myself so I can get some feedback about what mum's on here think about it too because its very hard to see my unborn child as disabled/special needs if its doing all the right things in the womb.
I have to say though it is good to see other people who feel as strongly about their opinions as me. Waiting4baby I really hope you don't think I meant you should never have had your son. There was no way to know my son would have the learning delays he has and I would love him if he had of come out with four arms and a tail it does upset me to think you would think I meant that. You are obvuiously a strong mum and a good mum who loves her son.
I would love to say I'm doing a brilliant job but my son is only 18mths and unawre he is not 'normal' so only time will tell how well be copes. He is visually impaired although the cause and diagnosis are still unknown and more things are cropping up as he fails to meet milestones.
I am sorry again, I also don't want to pick a fight, I am wriiting this on a phone so if again I have come accross badly/blunt please understand it's not my intention.
With regards to your situation I wish you all the best and as said have no right to judge and please make sure you don't let others judgements effect you as it will only make it harder. Take care
Am glad that you have such a positive attitude - you could be completely morose and depressed if it did happen to you, but that's not going to help anyone, least of all your ickle one. Well that's how we see it anyway!! And yes you do end up spending hours of your life searching for parking spaces at the hospital, and going for appt after appt, but its so worth it to see the progress they make against the odds. And its opened up our social life no end!!
Let us know how you get on when you are lucky enough to fall pregnant again - and maybe you will get to join this very special club!!
Mrs S x
Sarah & George (now 18 months!)
How is your gorgeous little man getting on? I saw the last lot of photo's you posted in baby and he's such a gorgeous, happy looking little boy, just seeing your avatar makes me smile.
Hope you don't mind me gatecrashing!
Kerry xx
Hope you and LO are doing OK!
Sarah x
Im gategrashing, looking for info about something else but again a topic i feel strongly about for various reasons.
I am a disability social worker and worked for many years in special needs schools, so i guess i have seen the best and worst of lots of children. I understand the struggles parents go through and also how much they love their special children, and how tough and hard it is sometimes to care for them.. mostly down to the struggle of stigma and lack of rescources/ support!
Anyway I am currently 12 weeks pregnant and have just refused the nuchal test as i know i would never have a amino as i would never abort a baby on the basis of disability. (personal choice i know, but like others have said, where does it stop? who gets to play god, and make that decsion? just because a test exists it doesnt make it right). Also after 2 years of infertility, I see the chance of my own child as a blessing, and the idea of trying again to get another 'more perfect' child and very wrong. With regard to the ladies who posted about her fear of having a 'ginger', I want say grow up. It is childish and pretty offensive, particulary on this board.
I have to say that on my own case load prob 50% of the children i worked with developed severe disabilitys after they were born for one reason or another, often when the child is in infancy. When we get pregnant we take risks, who knows what will happen to your child, what illnesses they may have or develop, as they get older they may develop drug habits or mental health problems, we cant forsee what will happen in the future, but as parents we are supposed to love our children unconditionally.
I would like to congratulate the parents on this thread who are doing so well with there own children and such a postive voice. I am not flowering things up and saying caring for a child with disabilties is easy, because it isnt, but it is rewarding in the same way as parenting any child is. It is certainly not the worst thing in the world.
Good luck with your children, I know they will bring lots and love and laughter!
Gem x
Sarah (Mummy to a walking, talking 22 month old with Down's syndrome!!) xx