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unfair dismissal - update

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  • i definately think you stand a chance. how can they stop your bus pass for being poorly?!?! thats proper harsh. deffo seek some legal help with this? or phone citizens advice beauro they should be able to tell you your rights on this. xx
  • Heya I only worked ther efor 3 months. I cant go down the traditional route of unfair dismissal coz it wasn't a year, but there is something called automatic unfair dismissal when you are pregnant and that is the route they will use. Ta for your support xxxxx

    http://tickers.baby-gaga.com/p/dev287pf___.png

  • Hi Steph. Would you be able to tell us what the job was and why you had a bus pass for work in the first place? I've not heard of that before and I think it could be significant in this.
    The fact that you told them you would be off work from Tuesday to Thursday should mean that you dont have to call in sick each day so for them to sack you for that would be wrong. However, I'm not so sure that they would be in the wrong if you did not come in simply because you said you could not get there due to lack of transport/funds. But that would depend on why you originally had the bus pass and the conditions of it.
    However, I'm not sure that failing to go in for 3 days would constitute gross misconduct and allow them to sack you without warning. Also, the fact that they knew you were pregnant makes it obvious they are using this as an excuse to get rid of you. But its also kinda strange because I doubt they would be paying you maternity pay if you had only been there 3 months - most companies require that you had been there for a year. Unfortunately some companies think they are a law unto themselves and that they can do anything. So just go for it and make them pay. Also, be careful about taking on a new job in the meantime as that may well effect the value of any claim you have against them.
    I'm fully on your side here. It would be great if you could fill us in about the bus pass.
  • Does anyone think that it will be difficult for me to get a job now that I am pregnant as I got sacked yesterday?

    I had a day off about 2 weeks ago because I was really poorly. Then last monday they told me that they were taking my bus pass away and wouldn't replace it as I had had a day off. I have had days off in the past and it hasn't been taken before.

    I informed them that I would not be attending work on Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday as I had no money for buses. I then had to have Friday and Monday off as I was ill, but I rang both days and told them.

    When I got back yesterday, they sacked me as I had not rung in on Tue, Wed and Thur, even though I had informed them that I wasn't going to be in.

    Does anyone think that I will be able to get them for unfair dismissal?

    xxxxxxxxxx

    sorry for the long post guys xxxx



    I hate telling people my job but I am a solicitor and specialise in litigation and employment law.

    If the reason for the dismissal is pregnancy (maternity etc) then you would have a claim for unfair dismissal no matter how long you worked for the company. Normally for unfair dismissal claims you have to have worked for the company for at least a year except in certain circumstances such as dismissal as a result of pregnancy. This would be classed as automatically unfair dismissal.

    Assuming they dismissed you because of pregnancy (but under the guise of not being able to attend work because of your bus pass situation) then they should have followed the statutory disciplinary procedures i.e. written to you with the allegations, invited you in for a meeting with a trade union rep/work colleague/ held a meeting and offered you the right to appeal.

    Compensation in respect of sex discrimination is unlimited (which you would press for rather than unfair dismissal where the award is limited) plus if you were unfairly dismissed and they failed to follow the statutory disciplinary procedures an employment tribunal can uplift any award given to you by 10% to a maximum of 50%.

    I also think it would be extremely difficult for you to get another job whilst pregnant! However, potential employers cannot discriminate against you when applying for jobs because you are pregnant -unfortunately it is a fact of life that they do!

    You can obtain an ET1 form from your local tribunal office but the time limits are extremely strict. Fill in the form and issue a claim against your former employer (this is free) and ACAS will get involved in order to try and settle the matter without the need to go to the Tribunal.

    If you are unemployed you m ight qualify for LSC funding (formerly legal Aid) and I suggest you go to a solicitor. LSC funding doesn't cover Tribunal representation but they will be able to fill in the ET1 form and help to negotiate a settlement.

  • Hi discodevil. Where does she stand as regards failing to attend work due to being unable to afford the bus fare? Would that be grounds for gross misconduct? Or would that only constitute a 1st warning?
    Also, if she was able to get another job would it be likely to effect her claim as she would not claim such a high amount of lost earnings? And what may it cost in fees if she has a job and is unable to get LST funding?
  • You go girl - I can't believe they've actually been stupid enough to sack you on the grounds they did. They will have an extremely hard job proving that they had grounds for gross misconduct (the only grounds allowed for instant dismissal).

    The tribunal could be some time away, so prepare for a bit of a wait!

    Keep us updated hon

    Karenxx
  • Little1 - The company was an insurance broker. When I started off I was a call centre operator and had to ring people up and try to get their details and arrange a call back for a quote for life insurance. I then changed departments and moved into quality control where I had to listen to other peoples calls and make sure that they were following the scripts and the regulations set out by the FSA (Financial Services Authority) so that the company wouldn't be shut down. (sounds interesting but really really not lol)

    Reason for bus pass
    When i originally started working for the company, it was based in an office in winsford (my hometown) I was informed when I took ther job in January that the company would be moving to different offices in Northwich (about 25 minute drive away) but that we didn't have to worry about that as transport would be provided. In the end they did not provide transport, they provided bus passes for those without cars.

    In the end it worked out that to get to work for 9am I had to get up at around 6.30 / 6.45 so I could catch a bus at 7.20am to get me to work on time. (I know that the times aren't really relevant but it made me mad having to get up so early lol)

    Thank you for all of that disco devil. Thats really really useful and very much appreciated.

    I wouldn't have been able to get maternity pay, as by the 15th week before baby is due, you have to have worked there for 26 weeks. I would however have been able to get maternity allowance. This is different to maternity pay in that you get awarded a certain amount each week if you have been working for 26 weeks without a break near to the time that baby is born - if they hadn't sacked me and I had kept working then I would have got that.

    Again thank you for all your support everyone, it really hel[ps to know that people are on my side
    xxxxx


    http://tickers.baby-gaga.com/p/dev287pf___.png

  • Hi Steph. That explains things a bit better about the bus pass situation. OK, so they were offering the bus pass as a good will kind of thing due to relocation. So I assume that alot of people had the same thing? If so, then I would have thought that they cannot reasonably take away your bus pass without doing the same to everybody simply because you had time off sick. Thats sounds to me like discrimination right there. When you say they said they would provide transport did they provide that in writing or was it only verbal? If you have it in writing that will something else against them. I dont think they could then acceptably withdraw the bus pass and certainly not without notice and expect you to have alternative arrangements instantly in place.
    I would say you have a very good case against them and should really go for it. I hate these companies that think they can do anything they want because people dont tend to stick up for themselves. Just be sure to take advice all the way on stuff like getting a new job, etc., and you can always ask us!
  • Oh yeah, its probably also worth your while asking the job centre about job seekers allowance but also check with them whether it would have to be repaid if you are successful in your claim against your employers. Probably not but its best to be sure.
  • Hi discodevil. Where does she stand as regards failing to attend work due to being unable to afford the bus fare? Would that be grounds for gross misconduct? Or would that only constitute a 1st warning?
    Also, if she was able to get another job would it be likely to effect her claim as she would not claim such a high amount of lost earnings? And what may it cost in fees if she has a job and is unable to get LST funding?

    It is my understanding that they took her bus pass away because she was absent due to sickness. I doubt that would be normal procedure and it seems that they have discriminated against her because she was pregnant i.e. she was absent from work and therefore they have taken her bus pass away! I doubt they would do this to a non pregnant employee.

    A tribunal will attempt to work out her future loss of earnings. So, they will take various factors into account when determining how to calculate her future loss of earnings, one being pregnancy. It will be harder for her to get a job whilst pregnant and the likelihood is she would be out of work until her EWC. Therefore she could claim her monthly wage x how long she thinks it would take for her to find alternative work.

    It would therefore be valid for her to claim this as future loss of earnings. However, she should show that she has attempted to seek alternative employment or the Company will argue that she hasn't even attempted to 'mitigate her loss' or find alternative work.

    Representation at a Tribunal would probably be anywhere from ??5000 upwards. The problem being even if she is successful in her claim she wouldn't be able to recover her fees from the other side (unlike County Court claims). So, if she can get LSC funding then great and, if not ,she should still make an application to the Tribunal. ACAS will get involved and try to negotiate a settlement on her behalf.
  • OK. So it would actually be a very good idea to get on job seekers allowance asap as that way you have to keep a record of attempts to gain employment and she would have evidence that she did try to mitigate her losses.
    The ??5k sounds pretty scary and I reckon is why many people let employers get away with stuff like this. It seems crazy that you cannot recover those costs if you win the case. Its possible her lost earnings could be less than that amount.
    Can you give us any idea on the likely payout she may get if successful? Can you expand a bit on what happens without LSC funding and how likely things are to be settled without incurring all those fees?
    Thanks and good luck Steph. Keep us updated.
  • OK. So it would actually be a very good idea to get on job seekers allowance asap as that way you have to keep a record of attempts to gain employment and she would have evidence that she did try to mitigate her losses.
    The ??5k sounds pretty scary and I reckon is why many people let employers get away with stuff like this. It seems crazy that you cannot recover those costs if you win the case. Its possible her lost earnings could be less than that amount.
    Can you give us any idea on the likely payout she may get if successful? Can you expand a bit on what happens without LSC funding and how likely things are to be settled without incurring all those fees?
    Thanks and good luck Steph. Keep us updated.

    It would be extremely difficult to work out her award without knowing her wages. In order to determine her 'injury to feelings award' she needs to look at the vento guidelines - here is a link -

    http://www.pcs.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=899376

    I agree in terms of ??5,000 plus puts people off and I don't agree with the system but then on the otherhand if the loser had to pay the winners fees - if the employer won - then the employee would have to pay their legal fees too!

    LSC funding -unfortunately I work in a privately paying practice only and we won't touch LSC with a bargepole but I think it is calculated on earnings/assets and savings. I don't know the thresholds but it's worth it if she goes and sees a solicitor that uses LSC funding.

    Once the ET1 has been lodged and the employer has provided their response then ACAS automatically get involved in order to attempt to settle the matter.

    I would also recommend this site

    http://www.lag.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=91087

    It will give you an example of an ET1 for sex discrimination (where she would claim injury to feelings and interest) and also a claim for automatically unfair dismissal. It also shows a schedule of loss for unfair dismissal.
  • Heya, thanks for that everyone. I am hoping that it all goes ok and that I can win. 5k is very scary lol. I am finding it hard job wise as people take one look at my bump and thats it really. I am on JSA at the mo and I also have to keep track of al lthe jobs I apply for to show the peoplethat I have been trying! I don't have anything in writing about the bus pass situation, but I have plenty of other employees who will back me up about that - don't know if that helps or not but its nice to know that they are there lol. Its becoming very real and very scary. I refuse to back down though as they should not be allowed to treat people like this!

    image
  • Heya, thanks for that everyone. I am hoping that it all goes ok and that I can win. 5k is very scary lol. I am finding it hard job wise as people take one look at my bump and thats it really. I am on JSA at the mo and I also have to keep track of al lthe jobs I apply for to show the peoplethat I have been trying! I don't have anything in writing about the bus pass situation, but I have plenty of other employees who will back me up about that - don't know if that helps or not but its nice to know that they are there lol. Its becoming very real and very scary. I refuse to back down though as they should not be allowed to treat people like this!

    image

    Don't hang about too long to make your claim. YOu have three months less than a day from the date of dismissal (not appeal) to make your claim. Keep applying and keep a track of those jobs!
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