Big (((hugs))) Loopy, it must be a shock to you but as Mrs86 said I think low morphology (<15%) is quite common, so don't be too disheartened hun x x x
Your doc sounds as insensitive as ours but at least he/she has referred you to the fertility clinic and not fobbed you off completly like ours did at first, grrr! They really should be taught how to handle these things better :x :x :x
You might want to take a look on Fertility Friends rather than googling, its helped me so much!
If your hubs has a normal or better than normal count and good motility, things are definitley still on your side for a natural BFP hun 3/5% of 20+million is still a heck of a lot of sperm! I know it doesn't help when things haven't happened so far, but try and get your hubs to take the antioxidants I mentioned the other day as they will help with his morphology! Also I would have thought with a good count and motility you would probably be offered IUI before IVF/ICSI, as they can do sperm washing to remove the dud ones and put the best ones back to give you a better chance!!
I'm consoling myself that at least hubs has sperm, be it not a lot and can't swim, (as well as poor morphology), as i've read so many stories of people finding out there husband is azoospermic (no sperm at all), which must be utterly devestating, so please don't give up hope yet hun!!
Hi ladies thanks so much for the support what would I do without you? Just feel like us TTC naturally is hopeless now. Here are my hubby's both SA results if any of you can shed any light it would be really appreciated.
Aug 2011
Volume - 4.5ml
Concentration - 77 million
Motility - 75%
Good Progression - 66%
Normal morphology - 2%
Nov 2011
Volume - 3ml
Concentration - 49 million
Motility - 49%
Good Progression - 39%
Normal morphology - 5%
The August amounts are all higher (apart from morphology) and that was after a very heavy drinking weekend away for my cousin's wedding!! I'm just annoyed at the -only 30' comment the trouble is she says it with this nice sympathetic voice so it's hard to be angry at her.
I've booked us in for an open day at a local IVF clinic on January 18th so at least it's something to look forward to and we'll be able to discuss our options and hopefully find out more.
Vickster_77 I know what you mean I'm happy that at least there are sperm there to work with, after I was told that with the first SA there wasn't enough to test I've been thinking all sorts!! What antioxidants are recommended? I'm struggling to find information online, DH has started taking the Wellman conception tablets again so that should cover the Vit E,C, folic acid and zinc etc. Do you think you can take any antioxidants on top of these that may help?
chickensoup85 I'm not sure what our options are to be honest its only from what I can find online I don't think we'll know until we have our first appointment with the fertility clinic.
mrs86 thanks for the reassurance, I seem to be reading conflicting things online about morphology x
Our consultant told hubs that the vitC and vitE in the Wellman vits are not high enough they need to be 1000mg vitC and the highest vitE I have found is 400iui. There is only 90mg of VitC in the wellman, so only 10% of what he reccomended and 30mg of VitE which equates to 20 iui, so again a heck lot lower, so get him some top ups!! The zinc is fine in the wellman! Sperm take about 3months to replenish and mature, so any vitamins he takes now will take about 3months to take effect, we are just at this stage now, so hoping we'll see an improvement on his tests later this month!
I know the morphology is poor, but if you don't mind me saying the rest of your hubs sperm analysis is phenomenal compared to my poor hubs, his counts was only 2 & 8 million/ml, he had 0% motility on the 1st test and about 20% non-progressive motility on the 2nd (totally awful!!), with 2&3% morphology, so in comparison you are in a far better position than us!
In fact if you do the maths from the Aug analysis your hubs had 4.5ml x 77 million = 346.5million total sperm, so with 66% having good motility = 228 million and then with 2% good morphology = 4.5million overall swimmers in an excellent condition ! So one of them has got to get there eventually!!!
I hope that helps a little in boosting your PMA that this can still happen for you x x x
hope you are feeling abit better hun. Try not to google as it just confuses people so much because of the conflicting messages.
Vickster you are such a wealth of information!!
When you work the sperm out like you have it puts a different perspective on it all.
Eeek, your holiday is not long away now. Only 6 weeks!! Very exciting!! keep trying to persuade my hubs that we should go away early 2012, he says we cant afford it though!! He's a saver and i'm a spender!! haha.
Thanks MrsM, I have been doing lots of reading up on this subject the last 3months, its the scientist in me I'm afraid Even hubs has bless him, he read an article in TheSun of all places yesterday about the effects of consumin too much alcohol over Xmas and its effect on sperm and so now understands thst too much alcohol stops you from absorbing zinc and that's why it has a negative effect on sperm, so he's abit more convinced about watching what he drinks now, even though its not a lot anyway, but i guess every little helps!
I'm def with you on the spending thing and hubs is our saver too, but even he agreed we needed a holiday and yes it can't come round quick enough I'l be dusting off the suitcases come NewYear!! I think you need to work on him!!
Also when are you going to test seeing as AF hasn't arrived yet???????????
Loopy, the more I look at your results the better they look hun, i know the morphology is bad, but the motility is normal and the count is way, way above average! I've seen people quote worse results than yours on fertilityfriends and they have still got there BFP naturally, just stick with it hun and hopefully the merryment on the run upto Xmas and into the New Year will help things along x x x
Vickster_77 thanks so much for the information it's really useful!!!! And you've made me feel a lot better with ur bit of Maths. You've been a great help perhaps we will get our BFP and it will just take longer than most people.
MrsM you and ur hubby sound like me and mine lol I'm the spender he's the saver. Hope u manage to persuade ur hubby for an early hol I think it's just what's needed with all this ttc business.
I feel very christmassy this wknd. Been wrapping xmas pressies, writing christmas cards, drinking mulled wine and listening to xmas tunes!! Fab
Also AF hasn't arrived yet and I haven't done a test yet either. Im too scared to see a BFN. I'd be more upset seeing just 1 line on a test than waiting for AF to arrive if that makes sense, even though they both mean the same thing. If AF hasn't arrived by friday then I am going to test as I have got a christmas do and I would want to know whether I can drink or not.
MrsM, how have you resisted not-testing so far, that's some willpower!!!
Loopy, are you feeling any better about things now??
Enjoyed both my Xmas Do's at weekend, although was very much on a go slow yesterday , getting in at 3am and being awake again by 6:30am is just plain wrong, must be getting old when you can longer sleep in on a Sunday
Feeling a little sad today, as I was looking for my new box of CBFM sticks this morning and found 2CBD I've had squirrelled away and they expire this month I've had them in that long How depressing!!!
Vickster_77 glad you enjoyed both your Xmas parties, my boss doesn't even give us one - not even a bottle of wine. I'm feeling slightly better about things because me and DH has set out an action plan so to speak as I've lost all faith in the NHS. We're going to have his 3rd SA done and have feedback from the doctor. I've booked us in for an open evening at a local IVF hosiptal in January so that we can go and find out more about costs/treatments. We have decided to pay for a private consultation in February depending if a lower cost treatment is recommended such as IUI we'll try it straight away if we're told we need IVF or ICSI we're going to keep TTC naturally and if still nothing by the summer book ourselves in for treatment as we will have been able to save a bit more and we'll be at the 2 year mark then so I can think that we've definitely given it long enough to happen on its own. Sorry about the tests I totally understand how you feel I've seen things in my old diaries about TTC over a year ago and it dawns on me how long we've been trying for. I hope 2012 will be out year!
MrsM have you tested yet? Keeping everything crossed for you x
Vickster, glad you enjoyed both xmas parties. I always wake up early when I have been drinking the night before and can never get back to sleep!! I had to through away some tests that were out of date last month, it's so depressing.
Loopy glad you are feeling slightly better, its always good to have something to focus on and your action plan sounds like a good one.
Well I don't need to test as AF has just arrived!! Devastated isn't the word!! Onto month 3 of clomid, bring on the night sweats and horrendous migraines. Please let this cycle work!! I don't want to think about what the options are after this cycle!!
Oh Mrs86, huge (((hugs))) hun, I'm so sorry she turned up, I had everything crossed this was it for you x x x Here's hoping it's 3rd time lucky and for a new year BFP!!
Loopy, ha our bosses don't pay for bugger all either, its all coming out of my pocket!! My problem is working at a Uni across different depts I've been invited to 3 this year, so got my 3rd one on Fri, def an expensive time of year!
I'm so glad we're getting the intial tests done on the NHS, as it would be costing us a fortune already and we will have no choice but to pay for any treatment we require as our PCT have suspended all IVF funding until at least Aug2012, when they'll review it again!! FC you don't have to wait too long for your referral to come through x
Hi Vickster_77 thanks for the info. Here is the cost of treatments where we have booked as open evening appointment: http://www.crgw.co.uk/costs-of-treatments.php from a quick glance they look pretty similar in price. Have you looked into success rates etc for clinics in your area? I haven't yet but was wondering if it's soemthing I should do? There has been a lot of recent negative press about one of the IVF clinics in Cardiff with mistakes being made.
I think we're going to have to pay for all of ours I asked for a HSG just to check everything was ok with me and was told no because there is not reason to think that anything is wrong with me. The only other thing we'll most probably have on the NHS is the 3rd SA and that will be it. We're hoping to book a consultation in for February to discuss our options once we have been to the open day.
Glad you are enjoying all your Xmas parties can't believe you've got 3!!! x
I have just booked my next appt with the consultant after our 3rd clomid cycle, its not till 8th feb though!!
Ive had 4 xmas parties to go to this year, 2 from my work, 1 from my husbands work and my dad owns his own business so we always go on his aswell. Ive only had to pay for my 2 work ones though so its not too bad. My last one is on friday. Vickster glad your enjoying your xmas parties, just what we all need to cheer us up, a good night out!
Its so annoying how different areas offer different things!! Its such a postcode lottery and its awful!!
Loopy, maybe wait and see what they say at the open day, you might not have to wait a long as you think , I was surprised how quickly ours came through! Also I would have thought if you do need treatment I think the clinics do a HSG for you routinely prior to treatment! I don't think GPs really have much of a clue where fertility is concerned, I know I've lost all faith in my GP after what he said to us, yet he looked after my Grandad so well when having his cancer treatment and my Dad after his heart attack, well at least I think he did, but sceptical about him now!!!
I also found out on one of my Xmas do's that a friend of mine who i use to work with is having tests done, her hubs is ok, so they are doing a HSG on her, again it's the fertility clinic that have sorted this out though. Was a bit weird talking to her about all this stuff, but lovely to have someone in the *real* world to talk to it about!!
Mrs86, hope you enjoy your last Xmas party on Fri too, nothing like a good excuse to get drunk & be merry!!
Still waiting for my Peak on my CBFM this cycle, it will typically be late as we've only got until Sat to cover it before we have to abstain for hubs 3rd SA next Wed!
Hey girls, we've gone very quiet on here of late!! How are we all??? Hope you're all doing better and feeling more festive! I know I certainly am, probably because today is my last day in work
Hubs swimmers went in for their 1st lot of more in-depth analysis yesterday, so que me driving to work via the fertility clinic with hubs sample pot tucked in my bra to keep them warm These things you could never have imagined having to do when setting out on that road to concieve a baby!!!
I'm 6dpo today so due AF around the 26th/27th, hopefully she decides shes too busy to call over Xmas, well I can but hope!!!
If I don't get chance to pop on here again before Xmas, I hope Santa brings you all some lovely presents and even more so a belated present of a BFP in 2012, its got to be our year girls x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Vickster_77 and mrs86 wishing you both a wonderful Christmas and lets raise a glass to our BFP's in 2012! I really think it must be our turn.
Vickster_77 I had to at the bra comment! So true I never thought we'd be doing the things we're doing to try and have a little bundle of joy. I'm feeling much more festive now, I went out last night and had a few glasses of wine, lots of dancing and singing to Christmas tunes. I'm so proud of myself for not being hungover today and making it into work for 9am - that is a mean feat for me as I'm usually ill all day! Enjoy ur last day in work, you lucky thing and I hope AF stays away for you.
mrs86 I'm working tomorrow too, my DH only worked half day on Tuesday and he's finished until January now I'm sooo jealous. Enjoy the New year bding lol
I think AF is due around the 29th for me now, FF put me down as oving a week late. Not holding out any hope of a BFP though just looking forward to and counting down to our fertility open evening. DH still haven't had his letter for his 3rd SA and we went to the doctor 2 weeks ago, I was really hoping he would have done it and had the tests done before we went in Jan but I suppose as long as its done by the time we have pay for a full consultation in Feb then it will be ok.
Replies
Your doc sounds as insensitive as ours but at least he/she has referred you to the fertility clinic and not fobbed you off completly like ours did at first, grrr! They really should be taught how to handle these things better :x :x :x
You might want to take a look on Fertility Friends rather than googling, its helped me so much!
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php
If your hubs has a normal or better than normal count and good motility, things are definitley still on your side for a natural BFP hun 3/5% of 20+million is still a heck of a lot of sperm! I know it doesn't help when things haven't happened so far, but try and get your hubs to take the antioxidants I mentioned the other day as they will help with his morphology! Also I would have thought with a good count and motility you would probably be offered IUI before IVF/ICSI, as they can do sperm washing to remove the dud ones and put the best ones back to give you a better chance!!
I'm consoling myself that at least hubs has sperm, be it not a lot and can't swim, (as well as poor morphology), as i've read so many stories of people finding out there husband is azoospermic (no sperm at all), which must be utterly devestating, so please don't give up hope yet hun!!
Aug 2011
Volume - 4.5ml
Concentration - 77 million
Motility - 75%
Good Progression - 66%
Normal morphology - 2%
Nov 2011
Volume - 3ml
Concentration - 49 million
Motility - 49%
Good Progression - 39%
Normal morphology - 5%
The August amounts are all higher (apart from morphology) and that was after a very heavy drinking weekend away for my cousin's wedding!! I'm just annoyed at the -only 30' comment the trouble is she says it with this nice sympathetic voice so it's hard to be angry at her.
I've booked us in for an open day at a local IVF clinic on January 18th so at least it's something to look forward to and we'll be able to discuss our options and hopefully find out more.
Vickster_77 I know what you mean I'm happy that at least there are sperm there to work with, after I was told that with the first SA there wasn't enough to test I've been thinking all sorts!! What antioxidants are recommended? I'm struggling to find information online, DH has started taking the Wellman conception tablets again so that should cover the Vit E,C, folic acid and zinc etc. Do you think you can take any antioxidants on top of these that may help?
chickensoup85 I'm not sure what our options are to be honest its only from what I can find online I don't think we'll know until we have our first appointment with the fertility clinic.
mrs86 thanks for the reassurance, I seem to be reading conflicting things online about morphology x
http://infertilityblog.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_archive.html
Our consultant told hubs that the vitC and vitE in the Wellman vits are not high enough they need to be 1000mg vitC and the highest vitE I have found is 400iui. There is only 90mg of VitC in the wellman, so only 10% of what he reccomended and 30mg of VitE which equates to 20 iui, so again a heck lot lower, so get him some top ups!! The zinc is fine in the wellman! Sperm take about 3months to replenish and mature, so any vitamins he takes now will take about 3months to take effect, we are just at this stage now, so hoping we'll see an improvement on his tests later this month!
I know the morphology is poor, but if you don't mind me saying the rest of your hubs sperm analysis is phenomenal compared to my poor hubs, his counts was only 2 & 8 million/ml, he had 0% motility on the 1st test and about 20% non-progressive motility on the 2nd (totally awful!!), with 2&3% morphology, so in comparison you are in a far better position than us!
In fact if you do the maths from the Aug analysis your hubs had 4.5ml x 77 million = 346.5million total sperm, so with 66% having good motility = 228 million and then with 2% good morphology = 4.5million overall swimmers in an excellent condition ! So one of them has got to get there eventually!!!
I hope that helps a little in boosting your PMA that this can still happen for you x x x
hope you are feeling abit better hun. Try not to google as it just confuses people so much because of the conflicting messages.
Vickster you are such a wealth of information!!
When you work the sperm out like you have it puts a different perspective on it all.
Eeek, your holiday is not long away now. Only 6 weeks!! Very exciting!! keep trying to persuade my hubs that we should go away early 2012, he says we cant afford it though!! He's a saver and i'm a spender!! haha.
xx
I'm def with you on the spending thing and hubs is our saver too, but even he agreed we needed a holiday and yes it can't come round quick enough
Also when are you going to test seeing as AF hasn't arrived yet???????????
Loopy, the more I look at your results the better they look hun, i know the morphology is bad, but the motility is normal and the count is way, way above average! I've seen people quote worse results than yours on fertilityfriends and they have still got there BFP naturally, just stick with it hun and hopefully the merryment on the run upto Xmas and into the New Year will help things along x x x
MrsM you and ur hubby sound like me and mine lol I'm the spender he's the saver. Hope u manage to persuade ur hubby for an early hol I think it's just what's needed with all this ttc business.
Hope u all have a good weekend x
I feel very christmassy this wknd. Been wrapping xmas pressies, writing christmas cards, drinking mulled wine and listening to xmas tunes!! Fab
Also AF hasn't arrived yet and I haven't done a test yet either. Im too scared to see a BFN. I'd be more upset seeing just 1 line on a test than waiting for AF to arrive if that makes sense, even though they both mean the same thing. If AF hasn't arrived by friday then I am going to test as I have got a christmas do and I would want to know whether I can drink or not.
xxx
Loopy, are you feeling any better about things now??
Enjoyed both my Xmas Do's at weekend, although was very much on a go slow yesterday , getting in at 3am and being awake again by 6:30am is just plain wrong, must be getting old when you can longer sleep in on a Sunday
Feeling a little sad today, as I was looking for my new box of CBFM sticks this morning and found 2CBD I've had squirrelled away and they expire this month I've had them in that long
MrsM have you tested yet? Keeping everything crossed for you x
Loopy glad you are feeling slightly better, its always good to have something to focus on and your action plan sounds like a good one.
Well I don't need to test as AF has just arrived!! Devastated isn't the word!! Onto month 3 of clomid, bring on the night sweats and horrendous migraines. Please let this cycle work!! I don't want to think about what the options are after this cycle!!
xx
Loopy, ha our bosses don't pay for bugger all either, its all coming out of my pocket!! My problem is working at a Uni across different depts I've been invited to 3 this year, so got my 3rd one on Fri, def an expensive time of year!
If it helps, this is the fee schedule for the fertility clinic we're under: http://www.northwestfertility.co.uk/fees.aspx
I'm so glad we're getting the intial tests done on the NHS, as it would be costing us a fortune already and we will have no choice but to pay for any treatment we require as our PCT have suspended all IVF funding until at least Aug2012, when they'll review it again!! FC you don't have to wait too long for your referral to come through x
I think we're going to have to pay for all of ours
Glad you are enjoying all your Xmas parties can't believe you've got 3!!! x
I have just booked my next appt with the consultant after our 3rd clomid cycle, its not till 8th feb though!!
Ive had 4 xmas parties to go to this year, 2 from my work, 1 from my husbands work and my dad owns his own business so we always go on his aswell. Ive only had to pay for my 2 work ones though so its not too bad. My last one is on friday. Vickster glad your enjoying your xmas parties, just what we all need to cheer us up, a good night out!
Its so annoying how different areas offer different things!! Its such a postcode lottery and its awful!!
xx
I also found out on one of my Xmas do's that a friend of mine who i use to work with is having tests done, her hubs is ok, so they are doing a HSG on her, again it's the fertility clinic that have sorted this out though. Was a bit weird talking to her about all this stuff, but lovely to have someone in the *real* world to talk to it about!!
Mrs86, hope you enjoy your last Xmas party on Fri too, nothing like a good excuse to get drunk & be merry!!
Still waiting for my Peak on my CBFM this cycle, it will typically be late as we've only got until Sat to cover it before we have to abstain for hubs 3rd SA next Wed!
Hubs swimmers went in for their 1st lot of more in-depth analysis yesterday, so que me driving to work via the fertility clinic with hubs sample pot tucked in my bra to keep them warm
I'm 6dpo today so due AF around the 26th/27th, hopefully she decides shes too busy to call over Xmas, well I can but hope!!!
If I don't get chance to pop on here again before Xmas, I hope Santa brings you all some lovely presents and even more so a belated present of a BFP in 2012, its got to be our year girls x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Glad you are feeling festive and upbeat. So jealous today is your last day, I am in work 2moro aswell!! Boo!!
Haha...loving the fact you kept hubs sample in your bra to keep warm. You must have looked like you had some odd shaped boobs!!
Fingers crossed AF doesnt pay you an early visit. Im due to ov around xmas/new year so im looking forward to some relaxed festive BD.
Hope you have a lovely Xmas and santa brings you lots of lovely things. I think we all deserve it.
Take care.
xxx
Vickster_77 I had to
mrs86 I'm working tomorrow too, my DH only worked half day on Tuesday and he's finished until January now I'm sooo jealous. Enjoy the New year bding lol
I think AF is due around the 29th for me now, FF put me down as oving a week late. Not holding out any hope of a BFP though just looking forward to and counting down to our fertility open evening. DH still haven't had his letter for his 3rd SA and we went to the doctor 2 weeks ago, I was really hoping he would have done it and had the tests done before we went in Jan but I suppose as long as its done by the time we have pay for a full consultation in Feb then it will be ok.
Merry Christmas ladies xxxx