The feeding saga continues...

I am still struggling with feeding P. The latest thing is that now she wont take a feed properly. She will take one breast then fall asleep (impossible to wake) then wake for the other side 20 mins or so later, fall asleep, then wake for a top up another 20 mins or so later. Sonetimes it takes me 2.5 hours to get her to finish a feed and she is now only going 3 hours between feeds (she was going 4-5 hours) so feeding her is almost non stop.

We are also having settling issues at night. We put her down asleep and 5 mins later her breathing pattern changes, becoming deeper and irregular, then breathing pauses (all normal for a newborn i know) then she startles herself awake and cant get back to sleep, sometimes for hours. She grunts and thrashes around and you can see she is uncomfortable but we cant work out why. She squeaks and grunts a lot which we originally thought might be wheezing/breathing issues but she was breathing wheeze free before waking and again afterwards so now i dont think it is a breathing thing, rather just normal baby noises. But she is definitely uncomfortable and farts a LOT and they are very smelly.

She had bad diarrhoea for a week or so and the hv suggested she went on aptamil comfort milk as it sounded like she had colic/wind. That made things worse diarrhoea wise asits aimed at babies with constipation so we are back on normal aptamil top ups.

I have been convinced she has a milk allergy but now i am not sure. The diarrhoea has pretty much gone now we are back on aptamil. Her face rash is also going. But what is going on with her not feeding as well all of a sudden? I have spoken to 2 GPs a

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  • Sorry stupid phone!

    I have spoken to 2 GPs and a HV and all have said they dont think its an allergy but P is 5 weeks old and i still feel something is wrong. They tell you to go with your gut instinct as a mum but how far do i take this before i accept all is ok? I feel like i will be labelled a paranoid mum and how often can you keep not accepting professional opinion?? Or is this an issue with me?? A friend suggested a symptom of PND is being convinced your child is ill despite reassurance from professionals?!

    I am not sure what to do??

  • Oh and the other thing which she has just done - after bfing both sides and she is asleep, i put her down and she wakes crying for more food. I give her a bottle and she doesnt want it. She is clearly hungry as i put her down again and she is crying and rooting, sucking her hands but now wont take a bottle when she would before?? She chokes on pretty much every bottle feed which i guess is putting her off but i dont get why she chokes 3 or 4 times on every bottle? We have the smallest teat and have tried TT and Avent.

    Its all getting me down and all i seem to do is struggle to feed P and cry.

  • Have you tried swaddling? Could it be wind unsettling her? (isaac used to mistake wind for hunger too) Have a weirdy *hug* it will get better I'm sure.

  • Are you winding her? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question. I know BF babies aren't supposed to need winding but mine always did. I was just thinking if she feels her tummy is uncomfortable she will just demand more feed (its a comfort too!). Also mine never wanted the 2nd boob. ever. I gave up offering it. What's the point!

  • Same as HF, both mine got very windy when BFd. Otherwise have you thought about Silent Reflux? Might be worth looking into. Sorry you're having issues still xx

  • What HF said disco mistook discomfort for hunger at times once we figured that out and winded him for a good while after a feed combined with gaviscon at his big night time feed he started to settlel a little better. for a BF baby he was very windy to start with also he was really only ever a one side baby for a feed.

    At 5 weeks feeds wrere still long he was a very sleepy feeder and he was no where near going 3 hours between feeds. You're doing a great job if you feel like something still isn't right go back to the GP. Have they looked into reflux/ silent reflux.

    Annother thought the rotten nappies could have been due to tummy bug rotorvirus or the like? Disco had that when he was tiny he ate all the time but was for comfort not hunger was massively uncomfortable with tummy cramps and the nappies were vile.

  • I tried swaddling early on but she hated it. I do think at least some of the unsettledness is wind related. I always wind her after each breast and after a bottle if she takes one but she often wont bring any up. Even infacol hasnt helped much. Going to try gripe water today.

    In the past P took both breasts and 3oz formula so her only taking one side or no formula is out of character. I expressed the other day and i am only producing 1oz each side so i would predict if she keeps refusing bottles she will lose weight again.

    The GP did suggest reflux but the Gaviscon made no difference. Now she wont take a bottle i cant even get it in her!! Also if i give her Gaviscon first i doubt she would take any breadtmilk at all as she would be full from the Gaviscon and water.

    I feel totally useless and pathetic. This is not like me. I am very much an "i can do this" person and very independent but i am feeling out of control with this.

    As predicted P just woke again 2 hours after i started this feed crying for food and i have just got her to take 3oz. Now she is in the bouncy chair grunting and shufflung and fartibg bless her :'(

  • Are you winding if she falls asleep on boob? I would. Even if it woke her ......

    Expressing is absolutely no indication of how much she is getting - babies are far more effective at getting milk out of a boob!

  • Personally I would ditch the bottle completely as it seems to causes you stress and making you obsess over OZ ..... But that's just me :-)

  • Expressing is no indication of how much little one can get from the boob, especially if you are expressing post feed. It is a night mare getting gaviscon into a BF baby. we found it so hard we only used it at night to try and help him sleep. I would cluster feed all evening then we would offer gavison with water or expressed breast milk and then if he was still hungry top up with boob again. It took several days to see gaviscon having an effect also I know it doesn't work for lots of people who go back to GP for different meds.

    Infacol was a huge help but again it took a good 7 days before we really noticed a difference in how much wind was coming out, I was really hesistant about giving it at every fed as disco fed little and often but after reassurance I bit the bullet and got on with it.

    have no idea about the formula top ups but is it possible that your milk supply is finally catching up with P and she only needs one side at a time now.?

    Have you seen a BF consultant? rather than a HV to discuss your problems they might have some different ideas you could try.

    I find winding disco is very time consuming his NCT buddies seemed to let it out much more readdily, and H is and was far more effective than me. I found it most effective to eiether bounce around walking whilist singing the windy song (see my BF baby was so windy we had a special song) or lying him over my knee and rubbing his back were the most effective methods.

    Note My HV was no help with winding she told me BF babies don't get wind don't bother with infacol.

    Did bottle refusual coincide with rotton nappies? It maybe if her tummy was uncomfortable she didn't want to eat to much amd so opting for little and often hopefully if she nappies are improving so might her appitite.

    Please try not to get to stressed I hated bloody weighins and avoid like the plague due to all unhelpful input. I found discos general demeaner was a much better indicator of his health rather than if he gained weight tick box steadily

  • A tip for winding (along with patting) that someone gave me was to hold her upright and gently 'twist' her top half left & right. Apparently this helps the small bubbles form into larger bubbles. I don't know if its this true but I figured it was worth a shot!

    Have you found a local BF support group? I highly recommend la leche league if you can track down a local meet

  • Miss Iris is a noisy grunting baby, she is exclusively BF, only goes 3h between feeds during the day, needs winding constantly during a feed, is spotty on her face (baby acne) and does the most smelly farts.

    Have you tried putting her on her front to sleep? Iris finds it so much easier to sleep on her front, she point blank didn't sleep on her back. Yes it's against guidelines but it works for us.

    Winding. Miss Iris has a lot of wind, she farts all the time and they are really smelly, Infacol and tummy massage and lots of winding help.

    As for feeding perhaps P has got more efficient and progressed to a one boob feeder, you're in growth spurt territory so the little and often is totally normal to stimulate your supply. Iris feeds for a MAX of 10 mins from just one side, she's just efficient, then she goes 3 hrs before the next feed.

    Is she gaining weight and tracking the same centile? If yes then I'd just try and relax and go with it, just because she's feeding less it doesn't mean there is anything wrong if she's gaining weight.

    Have you spoken to a GP about how YOU are doing? Xx

  • I've just been to see an osteopath for A's wind and he said its absolute rubbish that BF babies dont get wind. He said its got nothing to do with them having a bad latch, more likely that the milk hits the stomach acid and creates gas rather than it being swallowed.

    Anyway, i wind A half way through a breastfeed and she brings up loads then, and if she has anymore she might bring it up at the end. If i wait until the end of the feed she almost certainly won't bring much, if any, of it up. If she's a bit squirmy i sit and cycle her legs around which seems to settle her a bit...moves it around I suppose

  • Also have you tried a dummy so she can suck for comfort?

  • First I'm going to offer you the biggest hug.

    I was exactly as you describe. I also was absolutely convinced E had a milk allergy.  However I then saw Missus S' Henry who really genuinely does and immediately I knew it was me overreacting to her horrid but much less serious symptoms.  My e did all that you describe and also had and still has lots of silent reflux symptoms.  However I've come to accept there is nothing wrong with her.  I had to aaccept this is what they do.  They fuss and won't sleep.

    I really really hope you don't think I'm a complete cow for saying this but could it be your expectations are unrealistic?  I know you've another lo but just that you say feeding takes so long and she won't settle in the moses... so many hundreds of parents are going through that every single night.  Many can't even get them to sleep in the moses etc at all full stop until at least 12 weeks and would absolutely praise the Lord for 2 hours of no feeding. My friend who exclusively Bf seemed to feed constantly from 4pm till 10pm and was still doing that at 19 weeks plus feeding every 2 hours at least!  Including all night.

    Their poo also does Change a lot as their tummies begin to digest and the mix of formula into a bf baby will create wind.  E is formula fed and the wind in her was horrendous.  You could listen to it bubble away.  Now I persevere and won't put her down till she's burped be that 5 mins or 35. I know shes windy as I can hear it rattling round hrr chest and her breathing sounds absolutely horrendous.  Even now.  Putting her down after a night feed when she's fallen asleep on it meant a noise y restless night.

    However all this said.  I also believe in mommy instinct.  As I say it took me seeing a baby with a real feeding problem to realise mine was a complaint not a huge medical issue but if you aren't happy id March right back into that doctors surgery again and again and again x

  • And just to add infacol worked well for us when using two drops religiously before every feed after a good week.  It tajew a while to get into the system. E also confused wind for hunger as did we and life has been much easier since we cleared that confusion up

    I'd also hugely recommend retrying the swaddle and a white noise app. They change so quick at that age its a case of what works one night will not the next and it's like some horrible stupid game of guess what settles the baby.  Definitely I'm a fan of a saying I saw another hitcher write.... do what works until it stops working then jus try something else.  

  • Thank you so much everyone. I tried gripe water earlier and she did a massive burp so that might help.

    She also took formula from a new Avent bottle earlier without choking.

    Perhaps you are right and i am just being unrealistic. G always went 4-5 hours and was sleeping through at 8 weeks but perhaps we were spoilt and of course every child is different. I just feel like i have spent the last 5 weeks worrying and crying rather than enjoying P and this will be our last child.

    I am going to try and chill out about it a bit more i think.

    Thank you so much for listening to me everyone. I know i have been really needy lately and i do appreciate all your advice.

    Xx

  • I think if your previous experience is a baby who always went 4 to 5 hours this is going to seem "wrong" but it does sound like a normal pattern of feeding particularly at a young age. My daughter got wind from BF (I mixed fed) and I would wind her, she would be asleep would put her down 10 minutes later she'd be writhing around with it. It is frustrating but normal. Get your latch checked by a BF counsellor if you can as they can suggest ways to help reduce it.

    It will get easier - this part will pass. It may just take a little bit longer than with baby number one. I wanted to cry when one of my antenatal group complained that her little noy had started waking again in the night at about 16 weeks. But he'd been sleeping through since about 6 weeks so no wonder she was complaining! Unlike my daughter who was waking every two to three hours which was why I wanted to cry. The range of whats normal is vast and thats what makes it hard for you to know. If you have any time check out Harvey Karp - hes an US doctor who has some very useful things to say about babies in the first three months of life.

  • 3 hours between feeds sounds good to me.

    It does sound like reflux though and in my experience gaviscon only works in very few cases. Didn't for us last time. I would go back and tell the gp. They probably half expect it!

    I hope you manage to sort it all out.

  • You're not needy your a concerned mummy and that absolutely is your job.  So in my book that means you are doing fab.

    Definitely try the relaxing a little approach.  Have you been to any groups?  I ask because I found it so helpful to go and ask people what their little ones were doing which helped me realise e actually isn't at all difficult compared to many.

    This too will pass remember.  I really hope that those hormones calm.  Remember you've been through a lot so you must be kind to yourself too.  Crying is normal but if you are at all worried a friendly chat with a hv or even loved one might help.  

    You're doing fab x

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