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Lifestyle/Convienient Sections.....yes or no???
Hi I am not pregnant but something has been bothering me for a while and I wondered what you ladies think!!! Before I start can I just lay down some rules for any replies..... LOL...
No arguing...just a nice debate
No getting personal or bitching!!!
Anywho, my friend has 2 older kids and has just remarried. Apparantly after just 2 months of TTC with her new hubby they went to a private clinic and got IVF. That is fine, totally their business etc etc.. she fell first time with twins but sadly lost one at about 10 weeks. She is now 30 weeks with a little girl. Her first 2 were normal easy deliveries. No stitches and a quick recovery.
I was chatting on facebook to her and she said she is having the baby at a private hospital (in NZ) and is having an elective section on the day that suits her best as she wants to be out by the weekend to enjoy it at home. I was amazed! I have had 5 kids. 4 of these were vaginal and one section. Out of the normal births I had a breech, a induction, a back to back and a quick but bloody painful 9lb 4 oz! I had a seciton for my last due to placenta previa. Now, I would have 1000 painful vaginal births with only gas and air rather than a section any day of the week. I HAD to have one or me and my baby would have died.... no question! I cannot get my head around how a woman can just say to her doctor I want a section and I want it on this date! Even private hospitals should have protocol surely?? It has really annoyed me that she can take major surgery so casually! I hated my section, hated the recovery, hated that the baby was rushed away and not delivered on my chest like most my others were!!!! hated it hated it hated it.
I just think sections should be for ladies who NEED them and not ones who WANT them!!!
Sorry if this offends anyone but its just my honest opinion... What do you all think???
dxx
[Modified by: dee dee on 29 October 2009 07:44:05 ]
No arguing...just a nice debate
No getting personal or bitching!!!
Anywho, my friend has 2 older kids and has just remarried. Apparantly after just 2 months of TTC with her new hubby they went to a private clinic and got IVF. That is fine, totally their business etc etc.. she fell first time with twins but sadly lost one at about 10 weeks. She is now 30 weeks with a little girl. Her first 2 were normal easy deliveries. No stitches and a quick recovery.
I was chatting on facebook to her and she said she is having the baby at a private hospital (in NZ) and is having an elective section on the day that suits her best as she wants to be out by the weekend to enjoy it at home. I was amazed! I have had 5 kids. 4 of these were vaginal and one section. Out of the normal births I had a breech, a induction, a back to back and a quick but bloody painful 9lb 4 oz! I had a seciton for my last due to placenta previa. Now, I would have 1000 painful vaginal births with only gas and air rather than a section any day of the week. I HAD to have one or me and my baby would have died.... no question! I cannot get my head around how a woman can just say to her doctor I want a section and I want it on this date! Even private hospitals should have protocol surely?? It has really annoyed me that she can take major surgery so casually! I hated my section, hated the recovery, hated that the baby was rushed away and not delivered on my chest like most my others were!!!! hated it hated it hated it.
I just think sections should be for ladies who NEED them and not ones who WANT them!!!
Sorry if this offends anyone but its just my honest opinion... What do you all think???
dxx
[Modified by: dee dee on 29 October 2009 07:44:05 ]
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Replies
However, i think my circumstances are different as i am too small to birth naturally (proved by my last baby who was 7lbs 13, 2 weeks early and still got stuck!) and my labour with my eldest didnt progress for 34 hours...
when they asked if i'd consider a VBAC i told them not a chance...
not sure if you'd consider that as the same as your friend?
It was nice to have a date for the birth set, but it didnt happen as she came 2 weeks early!
I dont think i missed anything by never having a natural birth - it was frightening enough for me knowing that i didnt feel contractions (didnt with Ollie till they put me on a strong drip they failed to control, and never felt any at all with MJ and had dilated 4 cm in the space of 2 hours or so) so i wouldnt have known i was in labour if it wasnt for a show and anything could've happened...
I however didnt take the surgery casually. I understood it was major surgery and had things in place to help me/the kids/OH etc to make the resting period as easy as possible if that makes sense...?
I dont think I can comment on your friend, as i do believe if thats what she wants (for whatever reasons) then she wont change her mind. If she was pushed for a natural it could fail to progress because of her lack of commitment to it (??) and she'd end up with an em c/s? I dont know - I'm not qualified to say anything about things like that.
If she is adamant she is having one, and is private then i guess the doctors have to follow her wishes - it is her body.
sorry, have probably just waffled there!
xx
I am all for sections when its in the best interest of the mother and baby! I am just against the too posh to push brigade!! It makes a mockery out of the reasons for a section and makes others think everyone who has one is just wimping out. This really winds me up and I don't think it should be allowed.
I should have added that my friend has had boob jobs, botox, mini face lifts, liposuction...etc.. (i am not against this....would love to be brave enough to get my boobs done) I just think this paints the picture for you of what she is like!!!
d xx
[Modified by: dee dee on October 28, 2009 11:16 AM]
there was an article this morning saying that one part of london (?) was the highest c/s area, and half of them didnt have any medical reason for it. they were just the TPTP people....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/oct/27/caesarean-births-high-number
it is annoying as I was labelled (and still am) as one of those types of people and when people find out i had problems afterwards they act (and some have said) i deserved them because ive had 2 c/s and no natural birth.
xx
I too get people say ' Oh too posh to push where you?'...errrrmmm no I had a placenta completed covering my birth canal hence the need for a much unwanted section. It just makes me mad.
I don't think just because you can afford to pay that you get more choice.
d xxx
MummyStephe, I wouldn't label you as TPTP - in fact I dislike the term elective section in such circumstances, I prefer the term planned. A friend of mine apparently (according to others) 'chose' to have a section because her first baby was extended breech and her consultant advised a natural birth would be very dangerous for them both - where's the choice there?
Sorry, rambled a bit, but basically dee dee I agree with you - but we don't always know everyone elses circumstances or reasons for having a c-section.
....Sorry dee dee, obviously wouldn't label you as TPTP either!
[Modified by: *Sunflower81* on October 28, 2009 09:43 PM]
So in short I suppose I can't imagine why anyone would choose to have one, but I am really glad they are there for the purpose of saving mum and babe. I don't think any form of surgery should be under gone lightly, but then I'm not one for plastic surgery, again just plain too scared. I have under gone many surgeries for my kidneys and it has always left me feeling dreadful afterwards and so unless it's life or death, I want to be left alone.
xx
I am not against sections for the people who have had birth problems that may or may not transpire in the next birth, nor ones for people terrified of giving birth etc etc.. I am ONLY against the ones that people get because they can't be bothered to push and want to keep their lady bits in tact. They are the ones that make me mad!!!!!!!!!!
d xx
it is true that some people are just too posh to push!!!!!
Little about me, although im sure you all know by now! lol. I had my identical twins by elective section (or 'planned' - much prefer that term). I didnt 'choose' a section. In fact, I would have loved to have a natural birth and did push for it against consultants advice. However, at 28 weeks, Alfie turned and I was strongly adviced against it. I had my section on the planned date (not chosen by me I might add) as boys were very comfortable inside me! lol!
I HATED my section. I missed all the 'labour' thing and, funny as it may seem, I didnt like knowing when the boys would arrive. I really wanted them to make the decision when they wanted to arrive, not to have the decision made by medics. Unfortunately I had no choice.
Thats just me though. If someone wants to choose to have major surgery for convenience then thats up to them. I just know that I never would! Thats not to say that I wouldve continued to push for a natural once I knew Alfie had turned. Would have been far too dangerous for all 3 of us.
Sorry ive rambled. Dont even know whether what ive said makes sense! lol!
Gemma, Ryan and Alfie (3 weeks 2 days)
I totally believe c-sections are great when the medical complications mean that there is no alternative for mum and baby...but to choose so you can be home by the weekend is outrageous.
Some women need a lot more intervention than others, including a section. I don't yet know where i fall as this is my first, but i really hope i can deliver without a section.
MJx
37+3
Personally, a c section is worst-case scenario for me and hubby. The op itself is about the scariest thing I can imagine right now, I'd prefer to be told I need a root canal! I can't understand why someone fit, healthy and able to give birth naturally without it being traumatic for them or their baby would plump for the slicing open option. I don't think it should be allowed! Weighing up a risk factor presented by medical problems, such as a breech baby or placenta issues, shouldn't make people feel they're too posh to push, but so many people take it so lightly and act as though it's the 'easy option' that they give everyone who needs a section, and therefore chooses one, a bad name!
Sorry, that's the madly rambly wafflings of a woman who's slept on the couch for 3 hours due to a poorly hubby... I'm sure I've made zero sense! X x x
Em 36+2 x x x
The actual op wasn't anywhere near as awful as I feared. I actually couldn't feel anything other than a bit of gentle prodding (I was quite shocked when I saw in the reflective light that I'd already been cut into as I thought they were just working out where to make the incision!!). I lost a lot of blood though and nearly passed out while they were stiching me up as my bp fell so much - that was the scariest part tbh.
After the birth I didn't hold her for about 4 hours and we struggled to get to grips with breastfeeding for the first couple of weeks. It was awful in hospital not being able to pick her up when she was cryimng and she sicked up bloody mucas a lot for the first 24 hours as this is usually squeezed out of babies born naturally as they pass through the birth canal.
The worst part was the pain in my scar after the pain killers wore off. For 3-4 weeks it was excruciating to sit up in bed and it made it much harder to get back to normal. Not being able to drive for 6 weeks was quite isolating too as I was reliant on people picking me up and I didn;t feel able to manage the pram onto a bus until about 3 weeks after the birth.
I am really hoping for VBAC this time around as I want to experience the sensation of giving birth. Havcing said that I'm much more open to pain relif this time round and I've been told that a water birth is out of the option which is disappointing.
I wouldn't judge anyone who has an elective c-section but I think that anyone who opts for it without a valid medical reason is totally nuts - there is no way it's an easy option!!
Waffle over!
xxx Feebs
17 weeks
Mrs setters I think to me it is that I am sick of hearing comments like 'were you too posh to push' when they hear I had a section! Well, after pushing out 4 babies the answer is NO... but, I get so mad at having to justify myself. If someone has their appendix out you don't hear anyone ask 'where you fed up of it and wanted it out...' (bad contrast but I couldn't think of one while I have 100 sarnies to make)
I think it is EVERY womans business and the right to choose major surgery should be taken away! Just because she has the money to pay for it (before you ask, I am not bitter...my last 3 were born at a private hospital where I too could have opted for a section) does not give her the right to have a section. Sections whether elective (medical term for a planned section) or EMCS are there to save the life of the baby and/or the mother.
I can't stop her I realise that. It is her mistake and her regret to live with!!!!!!
I know several women who, for varying reasons, have had elective caesarians and not one of them has regretted it. I had an emergency section with my daughter, recovered well and generally didn't find it a stressful experience, I am quite looking forward to the tranquility of an elective section this time around.
You can't dictate the rights of the women of the world based on your own experience, nor on your own prejudices or those you have encountered. I think talking about taking away women's right to choose the birth they want is treading on very dangerous ground. Just because YOU didn't want one, wouldn't choose one, didn't like it; doesn't mean that it can't be a positive and empowering choice for someone else. Just as it would be wrong to dictate that women who have had a section have NO RIGHT to a VBAC, saying that a woman doesn't have a right to a section if she wants one is oppressive.
But the term emergency section can be equally misleading, since it merely means that you are in labour during the section and it some cases doesn't mean any acute risk to mother or baby - it just needs to be done quickly.
Maybe what we really need is all the terms relating to sections to be redefined in intuitive ways so that you only have to hear the term to understand what they really mean!
just was very intrested in this subject. i have an 18 month old daughter who i delivered naturally.
my mum, had c-secs with me and my other 2 sisters. they were all purely elective. from day one of finding out she was pregnnat for the first tine, she wanted a section. her reason, because she just didnt want to push us out! not because she was scaed, but (i know this sounds bad!) because she couldnt be bothered!!
now she was there when i had my DD, and when i was having contractions, i heard her say to OH and my midwife, 'oh im so glad i had sections!' wha?!?!! i just cant understand it!?! i mean, id never think badly of someone for having an elective, but i cannot comprehend why women decide that the natural process of labour isnt for them!! i completely understand why people have elctives for twins, as that is, in my opinion, completely different, and why they do for medical reasons and of course, pure terror, but i think its siuch a shame that people assume its the easy way out. ive seen recordings of my mum after her last section, and she looked awful. she looked really ill, felt sick, and couldnt move. after i had dd, i was up and about very quickly, and u get that adrenaline rush after the birth.
im a firm beliver in natural process, so much so, that when i fall pregnant next, im planning on having a drug free, home water birth.
every pregnant woman is scared they will have to have and em - cs, but i dont think i could live with myself, if i gave up a fight for a natural birth easily. yes, sections are best for a lot of womens situaltions, but if there is NO medical reason (excluding being unbelievably scared, i undertsnd that!!) , i dont think it should allowed!
(this post was about lifestyle electives not medical)
Mine was an EMCS...I was literally bleeding to death. My placenta had started to seperate and had I not had the section when I did them Amelia and I would not be here. I realise that gives me a very shaded view on sections. When I had a threatened m/c with my first born it was and still is on my notes as a threatened abortion. That sounds like I had been downing vodka in a hot bath. I hate that terminology!!! Same with sections. Mine was an emergency, an elective should mean that the mother NEEDS a section and a date and time has been picked in advance rather than an emergency. A lifestyle section should mean that the mother WANTS one..not NEEDS!!! I had an induction 16 years for lots of reasons but it is on my notes as a social reason... it makes me sooo mad!!!!
Diane, I am not getting at people who have had bad experiences..infact I think that is a good reason for a woman who NEEDS a section.
I do realise Mrs Setters that everyone is different. I have tried to point out though that I have been through some very difficult births. I have had severe PND, stitches in and out of my lady bits, tears, PPH, babies in SCBU...I could go on all night! I have not had it easy is what I am trying to say. However, no one in their right mind can deny that the moment your baby is placed on your chest is magical. It is a defying moment of bonding!!! Ladies who NEED a section are denied this but they know that it is in the babies/their best interests . However, to deny yourself this just so you keep 'honeymoon' fresh and the baby comes inbetween your hair and nail appointments is just something I cannot get my head around..
Remember, I am NOT having a go at people who are advised by their doctor to have a section....no way!!! I would 100% tell you to follow your doctors advice. The ladies I am against are those who have sections to fit around their social lives and to maybe even get a tummy tuck at the same time!!!!!!!!!!!
d x
ps ignore typos...1 and a half bottles of wine later...hiccup!