The difficulty for me in saying categorically that breastfed babies are less like to have all these problems etc is the added factors that need to be taken into account.
I am going to try really hard to explain myself properly here, SOME of the children that are bottle fed and so count towards statistics are going to come from families where the parents smoke, feed them crap, don't clean the house and are not bothered about them going to school etc.
As we are all painfully aware this 'chav' culture is growing at an alarming rate in this country, these people are less likely to breast feed and make up a large proportion of children who are obese due to living on take aways and sweets, have athsma and excema from their parents smoking and drinking throughout pregnancy and statistically will not do as well in school. This is bumping up the stats of bottle fed babies not being as healthy as breast fed children. It has got sod all to do with them being bottle fed, it's to do with their parents not looking after them properly!!!
I know that is a massive generalisation to make and I am most certainly NOT saying bottle feeding mums are chavs!! I hope I have explained myself properly and not offended anyone.
Personally I am pro-bottle feeding. That is not to say I disagree with BFing, I just think that it is a fantastic alternative to people who can't or don't want to breast feed and I don't understand why there is such contraversy surrounding it. Surely we should all have the right to make the decision that is best for us without there being any stigma attached to our choice!!
I plan to breast feed for a lot of the reasons already stated, free, on tap, right temperature, decreased risk of female cancers etc but if I chose to stop then I will not feel guilty and know that my friends and family will support that decision, I don't think anyone has the right to tell me what I should do with my own body!
I feel I should also say that I was bottle fed and have no health conditions as a result. I am overweight but because I am greedy not because I was bottle fed!!
Miss I, i know what you mean, but any study worth it's salt does control for these lifestyle differences.
I guess this debate will rage on lol - it's funny because I was born in the 70s and my mum was the only one on a ward of 12 new mums who was bf - all the others were on the 'wonderful new formula' and 'didn't need to do that yukky bf anymore!' (that's what they said to her!!! lol! She said the nurse were annoyed with her not bottle feeding because they couldn't tell how many oz baby had had!
And do you know what they made her do - baby was weighed, then she gave him a feed, and baby was weighed again to see how much weight was gained! He had to take a certain amount before she was let home. How times have changed!
Most concluded that the more children were breastfed, the healthier they were. On the surface this was correct, said Prof Carlsen, from the Norwegian University of Science and Technology in Trondheim.
Interesting - I plan on BF but it annoys me that you are made to feel inadequate if you can't. My friend simply couldn't (didn't really work) and she was made to feel like such a bad mother! Another friend is able to get great support at a mother and baby club, but you can only go if you breast feed. How wrong is that? All mums need support! xx
I think Breast can be best in most cases... if its going well and both mum and baby are happy. If it isnt then obviously its not best.
I breast fed for a few days but we had problems... my dd is perfeclty healthy, didnt have so much as a cold till 1 year plus and is a very healthy wieght (well a little on the small side but not big like they say formula can do!)
Breast feeding is such a lovely feeling, i think everyone should at least give it a go just to get that feeling But if it doesnt work out dont beat yourself up about it... its really not the end of the world.
As for the Daily Mail... no comment, that papers always scaremongering! x
Interesting - I plan on BF but it annoys me that you are made to feel inadequate if you can't. My friend simply couldn't (didn't really work) and she was made to feel like such a bad mother! Another friend is able to get great support at a mother and baby club, but you can only go if you breast feed. How wrong is that? All mums need support! xx
Oh my goodness your joking? A baby group that doesnt allow bottle feeding mummys? Surely thats not legal! I could understand if it was a breastfeeding group.. but a baby group? xx
Thanks for posting MG, agree that it's good to read as much research as you can and make up your own mind. Interesting read. For maybe the first time ever I agree with Mrs Setters
What ISN'T wrong with the Daily Mail?! :roll: Though I suppose it doesn't mean they don't EVER print ANYTHING of any value. ;\)
Where all the 'happy mum happy baby' arguments fall down, however, is when you compare UK breastfeeding rates to some other European countries. At 3-4 months, 75% of Swedish mothers are still exclusively breastfeeding. In the UK, at the same age, only 7% are still managing this. I wouldn't say that the pressures of motherhood are any different in Sweden versus the UK, we all have tits constructed in the same fashion - so where are we going so wrong?
To be honest I've stopped reading articles like this. So fed up with the conflicting advice everywhere on everything making me feel guilty about every decision I make!! So my new years resolution was - I'm going to do this my own happy little way. After all, women have been doing the pregnancy thing for a few thousand years so I'm guessing our bodies have figured out the best way forward.
I am going to try to breast feed (because I really can't be bothered to get up and get a bottle ready in the middle of the night if I can avoid it) but I'm not going to beat myself up if I can't or it doesn't work for me and bubs.
Same with teenage pregnancy statistics MrsS. I think our attitude towards both (bf and ff) is the main contributing factor....My midwife told me my hos is VERY pro bf, great but how about been VERY pro choice instead? x x x
Formula feeding costs the NHS millions every year. I can appreciate why medical professionals don't feel the need to be pro-formula-feeding-choice, in the same way they're not obliged to be pro cigarettes despite a good proportion of their patients being smokers.
That said, when we had feeding difficulties with my DD (she has CP, resulting in a rubbish latch and drop in my supply due to understimulation), I sought advice from a lactation consultant, and she was very pro-formula supplementation, in order to keep my baby out of hospital, but also very pro BF in the long term - and thanks to that we DID supplement, but I also managed to relactate and continue feeding her at the breast until 9 months. It's quite tragic that other women don't have access to that sort of support.
Current estimates are ??35 million a year, just for treating the gasteroenteritis resulting from FF. That doesn't take into account additional cases of female cancers that could have been prevented by the women breastfeeding, and other FF-associated maladies for babies like glue ear.
I have to say, I think that the scenario of people standing around 'forcing' someone to breastfeed is a rare one. That said, it's also rare that a woman 'can't' breastfeed - around 2% of women are physically incapable. Most 'failed' attempts at breastfeeding stem from lack of support or lack of knowledge, like thinking they have no milk because the baby is feeding much more often, when what's really going on is preparation for a growth spurt. I think we've lost faith in our bodies, and their ability to feed our babies, and because BF rates in this country have been so abysmal for so long, we have no experienced breastfeeders to turn to for support and encouragement in many cases.
I think the NHS are right in their intentions, but maybe a little bit overzealous in their delivery of the message sometimes - that said, what alternative is there if BF rates in this country are ever going to get better? Midwives are slammed for 'pushing' BF, and criticized if they even suggest giving up and turning to formula - how can they win? What message is going to do the trick? People whine about the 'Breast is Best' propaganda - but it's the truth! I wonder if sometimes women think they just ought to be told what they want to hear, but who does that do any justice in the long run?
[Modified by: MrsSetters on January 07, 2010 11:32 AM]
[Modified by: MrsSetters on January 07, 2010 12:29 PM]
Crunchynut back to your earlier point, me and my 3 siblings were all breast fed exclusively and i was weaned on goats milk because we had one. I suffer from terrible hayfever and occasional mild excema, One brother is similar to me, and my other brother has the most terrible excema, always bleeding, and infected to the point he is on the strongest steroids he can be given. My sister is fine and a champion kickboxer.
Despite this I plan to breast feed for many reasons but I refuse to feel guilty if it goes wrong. Its such a huge debate but I think the main thing is that every woman is supported in her personal decision xx
The link isn't working for me, Wanna-Bump, but ITA with what you've quoted!
ETA, re your edit! Interesting that you're a neonatal nurse. I think my ongoing determination to breastfeed was informed by my experience of having a child in NICU, and seeing how quickly she rallied despite being quite seriously poorly. I'm convinced, and her consultant agreed, that exclusively receiving EBM once she was up to being 'fed' was a huge factor in her amazing recovery. It made me so sad to see other sick babies being denied EBM, I overheard one mother refusing the loan of a breastpump and support because "I can't be arsed with all that, and I wasn't going to breastfeed anyway". Surely you'd do ANYTHING that gave your sick child even the tiniest sliver of advantage? Sigh.
[Modified by: MrsSetters on January 07, 2010 12:53 PM]
Just to put a different view across. I am pro-bf. I LOVED bf my boys and I WAS physically capable but, after 7 weeks, I wasnt mentally capable. I stopped producing enough milk as I was unable to eat or sleep. One day I managed 2 hours where I wasnt feeding or changing nappies - in 18 hours! I have 2 very hungry twins who put on 1/2lb a week being bf (and the same since I might add). I agree with MrsSetters re the NICU thing. I swear the reason we were out of hospital in 10 days with the boys being 4 weeks early and section born, was due to the fact that they were fed EBM, before being taught how to bf, from day 2, when I could get down to them.
BF was hard work but I loved it. I cried my eyes out when hubby finally convinced me, on the advice of the hv, that I wasnt coping and needed some help. I agreed to mix feed until things improved but I had done, it seemed, irreperable damage to my milk supply. Everyone told me it would come back but it just didnt. I believe I should have tried mix feeding earlier and then I may still be mix feeding now, but I was determined to bf, and suffered as a result.
On top of that, they struggled to latch on. Not a problem in itself, but it meant they kept falling off so I couldnt feed them together as I couldnt hold both of them on. This meant I would feed for approx 30mins while the other twin screamed, feed the 2nd twin for 30mins, change them, sleep if possible (which it often wasnt as they would both feed roughly every 90mins) before starting the cycle again.
I could have asked for help, which may have made things easier, but I didnt.
I really wish I was still bf-ing my boys as I have so many problems now with milk that may not have surfaced with bf, and I feel awful giving them a bottle when im out still as I feel judged. It was a very difficult decision but if I had made it earlier, they may still have been getting the benefit now.
Good Luck to everyone. I do believe its something everyone should at least try, however, I understand some people cant. I was given lots of help and no one made me feel bad - I made myself feel bad. I think this is why we believe bf is being 'pushed' on us sometimes - because WE feel this way. The professionals are there to help. There are not many that would judge.
I dont know if ive made much sense but I thought it important to point out that sometimes ff can support bf, and formula shouldnt be ruled out totally. Thats what I did and now my boys dont benefit from bf at all, something im very sad about.
Gemmie, your boys have benefited HUGELY from the breastmilk you were able to give them. Formula very much has a place in modern parenting - not as significant a one as it's sometimes afforded, IMO, but as someone who resorted to it when needed like you did, I can tell you that you need to stop beating yourself up! I don't feel remotely guilty for using formula when I did, because I know that even the best BF support wouldn't have got us over the hurdles we faced.
It's hellish harder with two, and you did well to feed them for so long.
[Modified by: MrsSetters on January 07, 2010 01:48 PM]
daisymoocow - definitely!! The reason I cant now bf is because I refused to ff earlier. I cant help but feel judged.
It doesnt help that the Dr this morning asked why we werent still bf as his wife breastfed their twins until they were 6 months and had no problems and I probably wouldnt have the issues im having had I have continued bf. That made me feel GREAT!! Hubby was really concerned as he knew how giving up bf had made me feel and how long it had taken me to come to terms with it.
I dont really know why I feel so bad, and I dont know how to stop myself feeling bad but I am getting better. I used to only go out when I knew they wouldnt need feeding when I first started FF. I was happy to BF anywhere (I fed them in our local phones4u when they were 2 weeks old!).
It sounds silly but I agree, we do careway too much about how we are viewed by others!
Replies
I am going to try really hard to explain myself properly here, SOME of the children that are bottle fed and so count towards statistics are going to come from families where the parents smoke, feed them crap, don't clean the house and are not bothered about them going to school etc.
As we are all painfully aware this 'chav' culture is growing at an alarming rate in this country, these people are less likely to breast feed and make up a large proportion of children who are obese due to living on take aways and sweets, have athsma and excema from their parents smoking and drinking throughout pregnancy and statistically will not do as well in school. This is bumping up the stats of bottle fed babies not being as healthy as breast fed children. It has got sod all to do with them being bottle fed, it's to do with their parents not looking after them properly!!!
I know that is a massive generalisation to make and I am most certainly NOT saying bottle feeding mums are chavs!! I hope I have explained myself properly and not offended anyone.
Personally I am pro-bottle feeding. That is not to say I disagree with BFing, I just think that it is a fantastic alternative to people who can't or don't want to breast feed and I don't understand why there is such contraversy surrounding it. Surely we should all have the right to make the decision that is best for us without there being any stigma attached to our choice!!
I plan to breast feed for a lot of the reasons already stated, free, on tap, right temperature, decreased risk of female cancers etc but if I chose to stop then I will not feel guilty and know that my friends and family will support that decision, I don't think anyone has the right to tell me what I should do with my own body!
I feel I should also say that I was bottle fed and have no health conditions as a result. I am overweight but because I am greedy not because I was bottle fed!!
I guess this debate will rage on lol - it's funny because I was born in the 70s and my mum was the only one on a ward of 12 new mums who was bf - all the others were on the 'wonderful new formula' and 'didn't need to do that yukky bf anymore!' (that's what they said to her!!! lol! She said the nurse were annoyed with her not bottle feeding because they couldn't tell how many oz baby had had!
And do you know what they made her do - baby was weighed, then she gave him a feed, and baby was weighed again to see how much weight was gained! He had to take a certain amount before she was let home. How times have changed!
Anyway, sorry for going off topic a bit there! xx
On the surface this was correct, said Prof Carlsen, from the Norwegian University of Science and Technology in Trondheim.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1241051/Breast-milk-NOT-better-baby-formula-scientists-claim.html#ixzz0bsPSojTe
very odd he TOTALY contradicts himself?
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20091003-18890.html Try reading this one.
BUT each mom has to make up their own mind!
xx
I breast fed for a few days but we had problems... my dd is perfeclty healthy, didnt have so much as a cold till 1 year plus and is a very healthy wieght (well a little on the small side but not big like they say formula can do!)
Breast feeding is such a lovely feeling, i think everyone should at least give it a go just to get that feeling
As for the Daily Mail... no comment, that papers always scaremongering! x
xx
Oh my goodness your joking? A baby group that doesnt allow bottle feeding mummys? Surely thats not legal! I could understand if it was a breastfeeding group.. but a baby group? xx
What ISN'T wrong with the Daily Mail?! :roll: Though I suppose it doesn't mean they don't EVER print ANYTHING of any value. ;\)
What ISN'T wrong with the Daily Mail?! :roll: Though I suppose it doesn't mean they don't EVER print ANYTHING of any value. ;\)
You're right, we should give them some credit. They might have printed something balanced, well researched and unbiased once. We just didn't see it!
I am going to try to breast feed (because I really can't be bothered to get up and get a bottle ready in the middle of the night if I can avoid it) but I'm not going to beat myself up if I can't or it doesn't work for me and bubs.
x x x
Formula feeding costs the NHS millions every year. I can appreciate why medical professionals don't feel the need to be pro-formula-feeding-choice, in the same way they're not obliged to be pro cigarettes despite a good proportion of their patients being smokers.
That said, when we had feeding difficulties with my DD (she has CP, resulting in a rubbish latch and drop in my supply due to understimulation), I sought advice from a lactation consultant, and she was very pro-formula supplementation, in order to keep my baby out of hospital, but also very pro BF in the long term - and thanks to that we DID supplement, but I also managed to relactate and continue feeding her at the breast until 9 months. It's quite tragic that other women don't have access to that sort of support.
I have to say, I think that the scenario of people standing around 'forcing' someone to breastfeed is a rare one. That said, it's also rare that a woman 'can't' breastfeed - around 2% of women are physically incapable. Most 'failed' attempts at breastfeeding stem from lack of support or lack of knowledge, like thinking they have no milk because the baby is feeding much more often, when what's really going on is preparation for a growth spurt. I think we've lost faith in our bodies, and their ability to feed our babies, and because BF rates in this country have been so abysmal for so long, we have no experienced breastfeeders to turn to for support and encouragement in many cases.
I think the NHS are right in their intentions, but maybe a little bit overzealous in their delivery of the message sometimes - that said, what alternative is there if BF rates in this country are ever going to get better? Midwives are slammed for 'pushing' BF, and criticized if they even suggest giving up and turning to formula - how can they win? What message is going to do the trick? People whine about the 'Breast is Best' propaganda - but it's the truth! I wonder if sometimes women think they just ought to be told what they want to hear, but who does that do any justice in the long run?
[Modified by: MrsSetters on January 07, 2010 11:32 AM]
[Modified by: MrsSetters on January 07, 2010 12:29 PM]
Despite this I plan to breast feed for many reasons but I refuse to feel guilty if it goes wrong. Its such a huge debate but I think the main thing is that every woman is supported in her personal decision xx
How cool!
ETA, re your edit! Interesting that you're a neonatal nurse. I think my ongoing determination to breastfeed was informed by my experience of having a child in NICU, and seeing how quickly she rallied despite being quite seriously poorly. I'm convinced, and her consultant agreed, that exclusively receiving EBM once she was up to being 'fed' was a huge factor in her amazing recovery. It made me so sad to see other sick babies being denied EBM, I overheard one mother refusing the loan of a breastpump and support because "I can't be arsed with all that, and I wasn't going to breastfeed anyway". Surely you'd do ANYTHING that gave your sick child even the tiniest sliver of advantage? Sigh.
[Modified by: MrsSetters on January 07, 2010 12:53 PM]
Blooming Daily Mail putting a ridiculous spin on it! And a sensationalist headline, which is totally not backed up by the actual article!
BF was hard work but I loved it. I cried my eyes out when hubby finally convinced me, on the advice of the hv, that I wasnt coping and needed some help. I agreed to mix feed until things improved but I had done, it seemed, irreperable damage to my milk supply. Everyone told me it would come back but it just didnt. I believe I should have tried mix feeding earlier and then I may still be mix feeding now, but I was determined to bf, and suffered as a result.
On top of that, they struggled to latch on. Not a problem in itself, but it meant they kept falling off so I couldnt feed them together as I couldnt hold both of them on. This meant I would feed for approx 30mins while the other twin screamed, feed the 2nd twin for 30mins, change them, sleep if possible (which it often wasnt as they would both feed roughly every 90mins) before starting the cycle again.
I could have asked for help, which may have made things easier, but I didnt.
I really wish I was still bf-ing my boys as I have so many problems now with milk that may not have surfaced with bf, and I feel awful giving them a bottle when im out still as I feel judged. It was a very difficult decision but if I had made it earlier, they may still have been getting the benefit now.
Good Luck to everyone. I do believe its something everyone should at least try, however, I understand some people cant. I was given lots of help and no one made me feel bad - I made myself feel bad. I think this is why we believe bf is being 'pushed' on us sometimes - because WE feel this way. The professionals are there to help. There are not many that would judge.
I dont know if ive made much sense but I thought it important to point out that sometimes ff can support bf, and formula shouldnt be ruled out totally. Thats what I did and now my boys dont benefit from bf at all, something im very sad about.
Gemma, Ryan and Alfie 13 + 3
It's hellish harder with two, and you did well to feed them for so long.
[Modified by: MrsSetters on January 07, 2010 01:48 PM]
It doesnt help that the Dr this morning asked why we werent still bf as his wife breastfed their twins until they were 6 months and had no problems and I probably wouldnt have the issues im having had I have continued bf. That made me feel GREAT!! Hubby was really concerned as he knew how giving up bf had made me feel and how long it had taken me to come to terms with it.
I dont really know why I feel so bad, and I dont know how to stop myself feeling bad but I am getting better. I used to only go out when I knew they wouldnt need feeding when I first started FF. I was happy to BF anywhere (I fed them in our local phones4u when they were 2 weeks old!).
It sounds silly but I agree, we do careway too much about how we are viewed by others!