I don't think that just because you earn more you have more of a right over benefits than if you are on minimum wage just becaus of your stamps. If you and I were to both develop cancer 'god forbid' I would expect the NHS to spend exactly the same amount treating me as they do you. It is those that turn 16 and go straight on jobseekers that need sorting. I earn minimum wage and the amount of NI taken off of me is relative to my pay. My partner is a policeman so his wages are far greater and his NI is relative to his pay, atleast those who work for minimum wage work
sorry I don't mean to attack it's just I hate it when people talk about minimum wage workers like we haven't tried enough to earn more - it's not always the case x
1) No tax or cheaper sanitary products - And banning the ad strap line "Have a Happy Period" from the Always ads, every time I see that ad on the TV I just have to swear!!
2) From my experience on BE it would seem that what it really needed is standardisation of care in the NHS. In my area I received brilliant care right from midwives, health visitors and doctors (this may be due to living in a small town so the rapport with staff maybe better), but I know that others on BE have had truly awful experiences. Which I feel is quite bad, the standard of care received on one side of the country should mirror that on the other side of the country.
3) 12 weeks scans should be available to all on the NHS, I know one woman whose hospital had a policy of not giving 12 week scans.
4) Better paternity pay/time off for new daddies.
5) Free prescriptions please - As an asthmatic since birth it sucks bum big time that I have to pay (alright not at the moment) ??7.20 per inhaler for medication I need to have to be able to breath properly and generally not end up in hospital.
my baby was born with torticollis although it wasn't diagnoised until she was 4 weeks and didn't receive any PT until she was 17 weeks, she developed plagiocephaly as a result and now wears a helmet to correct her head shape, which i have paid ??2000 for. Health visitors should be better trained to recognise these conditions and give better advice. Products suchas the sleepcurve matress and speacial pillows are available to buy to help take the pressure off the head and prevent plagiocephaly, had I had been made aware that these products were available, received PT earlier my daughters plagiocephaly may not have become as severe as what it has. More research needs to be made into plagiocephaly and health professionals made more aware.
regarding child care - I am unable to return to work as the child care cost would be more than I earn and we are not entitled to any help. whilst this is annoying, I appreciate that money does not grow on trees and the money would be better spent on other things.
with regard to the points in boots, its because boots are not allowed to give points. Infant formular is not allowed to be advertised, on offer, money off coupons or points of any kind, its the same if you shop at tesco.
also dont wish to offend but I think the buggy issue is a bit dramatic, when I had my first there were no access busses and yes less convenient but there is something wrong with you if you can not get out without an access bus!
also dont wish to offend but I think the buggy issue is a bit dramatic, when I had my first there were no access busses and yes less convenient but there is something wrong with you if you can not get out without an access bus!
the problem is no-one will help anymore, i dont see how without leaving my 10 week old baby on the bus unattended or on the pavement unattended (which i would NEVER do and how could you?) that i would be able to get my folded pram and shopping off, bus driver in my experience couldnt gove a hoot that your struggling and would probably drive off with my shopping/buggy (and no i'm not kidding!) i do belive that they are safer strapped in the buggy than being held if the bus was to crash, i do however agree that for walking children it wouldnt be a hassle but not a baby
piggypops i can assure you that i never left my baby anywhere and it was only 7 years ago, people didn't help then either. you need your money in your pocket ready, you have your handbag and changing bag over your shoulder, your baby in one arm and fold the pushchair and carry it with the other, once on the bus you put down the pushchair and return to the driver to pay, then take your seat with your baby. I can understand it seems a hassle but its really not that bad
piggypops i can assure you that i never left my baby anywhere and it was only 7 years ago, people didn't help then either. you need your money in your pocket ready, you have your handbag and changing bag over your shoulder, your baby in one arm and fold the pushchair and carry it with the other, once on the bus you put down the pushchair and return to the driver to pay, then take your seat with your baby. I can understand it seems a hassle but its really not that bad
I would have to agree there too....i had my first baby (almost 7 years ago) and there was no buggy access and no help either...but i used to do exactly the above. Or if i really didnt want the hassle id walk. I can understand what a total PITA it is, as ive said ive been there ;\)
I definately agree that SMP should be calculated as a percentage of your full time wage. At the end of the day those that earn more are likely to have higher mortgages and therefore struggle more on the measly SMP rate. I don't understand why it's so frowned upon to be a high earner these days. Very few people are born "with a silver spoon in their mouth" and most work very hard in training to reap the rewards of a high wage!
i agree. But it's not just that you're likely tpo have a higher mortgage, it's higher earners have paid for the system to begin with. i find it ridiculous when people say they started work at 16 and have paid in since then while i was at uni (for 4 years f/t to get a better job). but the amount that people at 16 - 21 would have paid into the system on low wages is a very small amount in comparison to people who are higher earners, so that really isnt a reason to give poorer families more! it really bugs me when people say that they deserve it as they have worked (at minimum wage) since 16 so they have the right to the benefits they get. my dad once laughed at me for complaining about paying ??50 in tax and NI on my wage. my first proper wage after uni made me very clearly realise why!!!
I respectfully disagree!
So, are you saying that as a higher earner, having put more in, you are *entitled* to it more? Whats about disabled people who cannot work? They can't put money in, but take a lot out?
People with high mortgages should not get any more than people with low mortgages. I could have had afforded lovely detached house in a nice area, but I knew that we would be having a family. Therefore, we bought what we could afford on one wage. It is not my *right* to get my mortgage paid by the system.
RE the prams/buses, yes it's easy enough when you just have a pram and baby, I used to do it at 16 when I babysat my nephew. But what about when you have been to the shops, have tons of bags, can't afford a taxi/have no carseat, and no one will help you on the bus with your bags? Where I live, you would always get the old dears helping, or some scally(!), but where my sisters live, they would look right past you.
One more thing - regarding better SMP/rights. We need to be careful that we don't have it too good. In the case of small businesses for example, two candidates go for a job. One male, one female. Both are child bearing age. Both have similar experience. Who would you employ? The man who will have 2 weeks off at ??123 per week, or the female who gets e.g. 9 months full pay, or more?
Where would all this money come from to introduce these new ideas though that is the problem. And I think there are alot of generalisations being made too. The council housing for example not all young pregnant women end up in council houses??
To be honest I dont know where I'd start if I was PM the countries in such a mess, However I do count ourselves lucky that we have the NHS and a welfare system in this country just s shame it gets abused.
RE the prams/buses, yes it's easy enough when you just have a pram and baby, I used to do it at 16 when I babysat my nephew. But what about when you have been to the shops, have tons of bags, can't afford a taxi/have no carseat, and no one will help you on the bus with your bags? Where I live, you would always get the old dears helping, or some scally(!), but where my sisters live, they would look right past you.
this is what i ment, i am sure with just your basics it would be fine but i ment after going shopping
cate and princess: my actual pount was that higher earners are currently entitled to LESS. why is that? on maternity leave i'll be earning ??108 a week, after everything has been taken out. same as everyone else. except i wont get tax credits and i wasnt entitled to the sure start maternity grant. i think the ssmg is a huge waste of money and nobody should get it. i amk sure the government could introduce a voucher system at a much cheaper cost.
I wasn't elligable either. I earn ??860 a month after tax and that was regarded as too much, all I got was the mandatory ??190. My oh is entitled to tax credits because he works - is that not the way it works? X
ive already put my twopenneth in on this but i just want to quote this :
I find it ridiculous when people say they started work at 16 and have paid in since then while i was at uni (for 4 years f/t to get a better job). but the amount that people at 16 - 21 would have paid into the system on low wages is a very small amount in comparison to people who are higher earners, so that really isnt a reason to give poorer families more! it really bugs me when people say that they deserve it as they have worked (at minimum wage) since 16 so they have the right to the benefits they get.
im not sure if im reading this right BUT if ive worked since i was 17 which i have then yes i have paid tax and ni since then and no i might not have paid as much because i dont have a super paying high flying job and no i didnt go to uni however can i just say that i think its a little rude to say its "ridiculous" ..i didnt go to uni because i didnt do well at school! i didnt do well at school because my parents spilt when i 1st went to high school and i was moved twice in two years and then made the subject of bullying! So i left school at 16 with ONE c grade BUT i went to do a work placement working 45 hours a week for a measely ??45 a week training as a nursery nurse! I trained for 4 hard years ,onsite to get to a level 3 just to be paid MINIMUM WAGE! I am one of the people who looks after the precious children of the high flying buisness people and yet im on the bare minium pay ....so yes i do get tax credits etc but yes i also think i deserve it too because i have paid a fair share of what i have earnt into the system .....
sorry if that seemed like i was ranting im not trying to just trying to get my point across ...and if i misunderstood the quote totally ..im sorry again ..im not as bright these days
They would probably be entitled to less, as they should need less. I know this isn't always the case, as my sisters family earns over 80k per year, and they don't have a bean to spare. I earn a lot less, but have a lot more spare cash.
I also agrre that the SSMG should be in vouchers. I actually received it, (I earn more than ??860 though Princess), and I would have been more than happy with vouchers. I just think cash can be spent on anything and everything apart from baby!
(quote) Where would all this money come from to introduce these new ideas though that is the problem.(quote)
There are many contributions I could add to this thread (lol!) but this is the one thing I have been thinking since reading all your posts. We all moan about how much we pay into the system, and how little we get out, but many of the suggestions have focussed around more training, better paternity pay/maternity pay, more benefits, better NHS care etc but all these things cost money and the country is already in a serious amount of debt!
Dont get me wrong, im going back to work earlier than I want to as I dont receive enough in SMP to cover my bills! Im also doing some extra KIT days just to earn enough to pay the mortgage as my pay dropped by ??1100 when I went on maternity leave (after the 90% and 50% etc)! This was a huge amount for us to lose and just not do-able. Im lucky, I dont have to pay for childcare for the boys, but I really dont know what we would have done otherwise as I never planned to have 2 children together!!
On a different point (and again I dont know where the money would come from. LOL) but I find it unfair that, although I have twins, one of them is classed as a second child when it comes to Child Benefit. They cost the same at the same time and I never chose to have 2 children (I sound like I dont want them...THAT IS NOT THE CASE - I love them both to pieces) and I would understand if I had chosen to have the second but I would love them both to be thought of as first children.
cate i have no idea why you would think that i should need less on maternity leave! i pay the same for food, bills etc as anyone else surely! if you think it's because i should be able to save more before getting pregnant, then surely that is the same for everyone. in that case everyone should get nothing at all as we should all only have children when we can afford them. but then would anyone be able to have a child?
chuffedbaby2 i was responding to people who say that they have worked since school so should get more as they have paid in for longer. this doesn't mean they have paid in more. nobody said that on this thread, but i have read it plenty of times before. i just really disagree with the governments current policy of handing out money unnecessarily.
chuffedbaby2 i was responding to people who say that they have worked since school so should get more as they have paid in for longer. this doesn't mean they have paid in more. nobody said that on this thread, but i have read it plenty of times before. i just really disagree with the governments current policy of handing out money unnecessarily
ahh i understand now i read it as in just because u work straight from school ,if u dont have a good job and therefore dont pay masses of tax then you shouldnt be entitled to the same
i also dont think the goverment do hand money out unnecceserily (sp!) well not always ..if we didnt get our tax credits etc it might mean the difference in whether my children have shoes that are correctly fitted for them or not ...we earn very little despite working hard and need the extra we get from the goverment xxx
cate i have no idea why you would think that i should need less on maternity leave! i pay the same for food, bills etc as anyone else surely!
Exactly! So SMP being the same for everyone means that we should all be able to pay our bills. I never said you should get less, SMP should be a flat rate for everyone, regardless of earnings/taxes paid.
ok, just re read my reply, and it looks like I am having a go. I'm not! SMP is a flat rate, and if people on a low wage can live on it, so should people on a high wage. Other benefits should be less, i.e. tax credits/grants, because a person who earns more *should* have more spare cash per month. Like I said, I know this doesn't always happen, but you can't cite a high mortgage as a reason.
Replies
sorry I don't mean to attack it's just I hate it when people talk about minimum wage workers like we haven't tried enough to earn more - it's not always the case x
1) No tax or cheaper sanitary products - And banning the ad strap line "Have a Happy Period" from the Always ads, every time I see that ad on the TV I just have to swear!!
2) From my experience on BE it would seem that what it really needed is standardisation of care in the NHS. In my area I received brilliant care right from midwives, health visitors and doctors (this may be due to living in a small town so the rapport with staff maybe better), but I know that others on BE have had truly awful experiences. Which I feel is quite bad, the standard of care received on one side of the country should mirror that on the other side of the country.
3) 12 weeks scans should be available to all on the NHS, I know one woman whose hospital had a policy of not giving 12 week scans.
4) Better paternity pay/time off for new daddies.
5) Free prescriptions please - As an asthmatic since birth it sucks bum big time that I have to pay (alright not at the moment) ??7.20 per inhaler for medication I need to have to be able to breath properly and generally not end up in hospital.
Think that's it for now.
regarding child care - I am unable to return to work as the child care cost would be more than I earn and we are not entitled to any help. whilst this is annoying, I appreciate that money does not grow on trees and the money would be better spent on other things.
with regard to the points in boots, its because boots are not allowed to give points. Infant formular is not allowed to be advertised, on offer, money off coupons or points of any kind, its the same if you shop at tesco.
also dont wish to offend but I think the buggy issue is a bit dramatic, when I had my first there were no access busses and yes less convenient but there is something wrong with you if you can not get out without an access bus!
the problem is no-one will help anymore, i dont see how without leaving my 10 week old baby on the bus unattended or on the pavement unattended (which i would NEVER do and how could you?) that i would be able to get my folded pram and shopping off, bus driver in my experience couldnt gove a hoot that your struggling and would probably drive off with my shopping/buggy (and no i'm not kidding!) i do belive that they are safer strapped in the buggy than being held if the bus was to crash, i do however agree that for walking children it wouldnt be a hassle but not a baby
I would have to agree there too....i had my first baby (almost 7 years ago) and there was no buggy access and no help either...but i used to do exactly the above. Or if i really didnt want the hassle id walk. I can understand what a total PITA it is, as ive said ive been there ;\)
i agree. But it's not just that you're likely tpo have a higher mortgage, it's higher earners have paid for the system to begin with. i find it ridiculous when people say they started work at 16 and have paid in since then while i was at uni (for 4 years f/t to get a better job). but the amount that people at 16 - 21 would have paid into the system on low wages is a very small amount in comparison to people who are higher earners, so that really isnt a reason to give poorer families more! it really bugs me when people say that they deserve it as they have worked (at minimum wage) since 16 so they have the right to the benefits they get. my dad once laughed at me for complaining about paying ??50 in tax and NI on my wage. my first proper wage after uni made me very clearly realise why!!!
I respectfully disagree!
So, are you saying that as a higher earner, having put more in, you are *entitled* to it more? Whats about disabled people who cannot work? They can't put money in, but take a lot out?
People with high mortgages should not get any more than people with low mortgages. I could have had afforded lovely detached house in a nice area, but I knew that we would be having a family. Therefore, we bought what we could afford on one wage. It is not my *right* to get my mortgage paid by the system.
RE the prams/buses, yes it's easy enough when you just have a pram and baby, I used to do it at 16 when I babysat my nephew. But what about when you have been to the shops, have tons of bags, can't afford a taxi/have no carseat, and no one will help you on the bus with your bags? Where I live, you would always get the old dears helping, or some scally(!), but where my sisters live, they would look right past you.
One more thing - regarding better SMP/rights. We need to be careful that we don't have it too good. In the case of small businesses for example, two candidates go for a job. One male, one female. Both are child bearing age. Both have similar experience. Who would you employ? The man who will have 2 weeks off at ??123 per week, or the female who gets e.g. 9 months full pay, or more?
To be honest I dont know where I'd start if I was PM the countries in such a mess, However I do count ourselves lucky that we have the NHS and a welfare system in this country just s shame it gets abused.
this is what i ment, i am sure with just your basics it would be fine but i ment after going shopping
I find it ridiculous when people say they started work at 16 and have paid in since then while i was at uni (for 4 years f/t to get a better job). but the amount that people at 16 - 21 would have paid into the system on low wages is a very small amount in comparison to people who are higher earners, so that really isnt a reason to give poorer families more! it really bugs me when people say that they deserve it as they have worked (at minimum wage) since 16 so they have the right to the benefits they get.
im not sure if im reading this right BUT if ive worked since i was 17 which i have then yes i have paid tax and ni since then and no i might not have paid as much because i dont have a super paying high flying job and no i didnt go to uni however can i just say that i think its a little rude to say its "ridiculous" ..i didnt go to uni because i didnt do well at school! i didnt do well at school because my parents spilt when i 1st went to high school and i was moved twice in two years and then made the subject of bullying! So i left school at 16 with ONE c grade BUT i went to do a work placement working 45 hours a week for a measely ??45 a week training as a nursery nurse! I trained for 4 hard years ,onsite to get to a level 3 just to be paid MINIMUM WAGE! I am one of the people who looks after the precious children of the high flying buisness people and yet im on the bare minium pay ....so yes i do get tax credits etc but yes i also think i deserve it too because i have paid a fair share of what i have earnt into the system .....
sorry if that seemed like i was ranting im not trying to just trying to get my point across ...and if i misunderstood the quote totally ..im sorry again ..im not as bright these days
I also agrre that the SSMG should be in vouchers. I actually received it, (I earn more than ??860 though Princess), and I would have been more than happy with vouchers. I just think cash can be spent on anything and everything apart from baby!
There are many contributions I could add to this thread (lol!) but this is the one thing I have been thinking since reading all your posts. We all moan about how much we pay into the system, and how little we get out, but many of the suggestions have focussed around more training, better paternity pay/maternity pay, more benefits, better NHS care etc but all these things cost money and the country is already in a serious amount of debt!
Dont get me wrong, im going back to work earlier than I want to as I dont receive enough in SMP to cover my bills! Im also doing some extra KIT days just to earn enough to pay the mortgage as my pay dropped by ??1100 when I went on maternity leave (after the 90% and 50% etc)! This was a huge amount for us to lose and just not do-able. Im lucky, I dont have to pay for childcare for the boys, but I really dont know what we would have done otherwise as I never planned to have 2 children together!!
On a different point (and again I dont know where the money would come from. LOL) but I find it unfair that, although I have twins, one of them is classed as a second child when it comes to Child Benefit. They cost the same at the same time and I never chose to have 2 children (I sound like I dont want them...THAT IS NOT THE CASE - I love them both to pieces) and I would understand if I had chosen to have the second but I would love them both to be thought of as first children.
Wishful thinking! lol...Ill bugger off now!
Gemma, Ryan and Alfie 22 + 5
chuffedbaby2 i was responding to people who say that they have worked since school so should get more as they have paid in for longer. this doesn't mean they have paid in more. nobody said that on this thread, but i have read it plenty of times before. i just really disagree with the governments current policy of handing out money unnecessarily.
ahh i understand now
i also dont think the goverment do hand money out unnecceserily (sp!) well not always ..if we didnt get our tax credits etc it might mean the difference in whether my children have shoes that are correctly fitted for them or not ...we earn very little despite working hard and need the extra we get from the goverment xxx
Exactly! So SMP being the same for everyone means that we should all be able to pay our bills. I never said you should get less, SMP should be a flat rate for everyone, regardless of earnings/taxes paid.