Shocked!

_Minnie09_ · Jan 24, 2010 5:46AM

Hi ladies

I was chatting to my mum the other day and she asked me if I knew the % of mums who breastfeed and for how long. I didn't but have just had a little search online and was SO shocked at how low it is.

I found the following website http://www.babyfriendly.org.uk/page.asp?page=21 that says for 2005 (survey is done every 5 years so this is most recent one):

'Overall, only 35 per cent of UK babies are being exclusively breastfed at one week, 21 per cent at six weeks, 7 per cent at four months and 3 per cent at five months'

Now I completely understand that there are a small number of people who can't breastfeed for medical reasons and under certain circumstances need to FF, but I just find it incredibly sad that so few mums continue breastfeeding, especially compared to some other European countries.

Love NN and Olyvia xxx

pbob · Jan 22, 2010 3:58PM

Wow! That's shocking-i wonder what the figures are for 12 months plus-no wonder people keep asking me when im going to wean (lo is 10months and ive no plans to stop!)

EnglebertW_nkface · Jan 22, 2010 4:00PM

They are pretty shocking stats aren't they? The one that always suprises me the most is the 1 week one. By 1 week your milk has only just come in, how can so many people have already decided that bfing isn't for them? I think for me they are more suprising because in my family bfing is the norm. My mum was a rebel

and bfed all of us at a time when everyone (including her mum) was pushing her to ffed, and my oh was born while his parents were living in Malaysia where bfing is the norm, so he and his brother were bfed as well.
The biggest problem we have in this country is a huge lack of support for new mums. One of my best friends is Norwegian, and he was telling us that when his sister had her first baby she actually stayed in hospital for about a week just so that she had support with feeding, and in Norway that is tottaly normal. Wouldn't it be lovely if we had the same level of support here?
xx

EnglebertW_nkface · Jan 22, 2010 4:01PM

Wow! That's shocking-i wonder what the figures are for 12 months plus-no wonder people keep asking me when im going to wean (lo is 10months and ive no plans to stop!)

My guess is less than 1%

Barney is 18 months and still having 1 feed a day. Can't even begin to imagine the reaction I'd get if I fed him in public!

pbob · Jan 22, 2010 4:07PM

Awww, i feel special now!!xx

millysmum_naomi · Jan 22, 2010 5:34PM

You're right NN it IS shocking! we are in the minority! Our boobs produce milk to give our babies as nature intended, for free and yet only precious few of us still doing it.
Where i live, there are quite a few areas where they are trying to push bf as we have one of the lowest bf rates in the County (not country) but my HV says by the time she visits mums at one week, most have stopped and started ff. so sad. also all the children's centres then stop putting on the bf support groups cos no one goes and so they cant afford to staff them = vicious circle!
At work last week i happened to mention i still bf my dd2 at 13 months and 3 of the ladies were pretty horrified that i am bf a "toddler". This country has some bizarre social attitudes. another lady couldnt believe i had never had a night off putting dd to bed or let dh give her a bottle!
I'm bloomin proud of my bf achievements and we shoudl all give ourselves a pat on the back now and again, cos yes it is natural and we're doing what our bodies were made for, but at the same time it's hard work and we're doing a great job x

TheHistoryGirl1 · Jan 22, 2010 6:11PM

It is fascinating that the stats go up to 5 months. My impression was that a lot of women who managed to breast feed for the first month stopped by six months because they were going back to work. That is certainly what happened for many of the women in my mother and baby group.

I am mixed feeding (he takes one bottle at bedtime and I stopped being able to express enough milk for a full bottle at nine months - nothing at all to do with my milk supply, just that no breast pump will ever be as efficient as a baby) but I can only still give him the two feed a day that I do because I work from home. If I had to go back to work in an office at 6 months, I would have had to switch to formula before then.

I also wonder what the comparable stats for the US are. There is much greater pressure for women to go back to work early (after 3 months in most cases) but also a much greater culture of expressing. It might make for an interesting comparison. I'll see if I can find some info.

kateandal · Jan 22, 2010 7:26PM

wow that really is shocking, i can't believe it's only 3% by 5 months - but then again, when i think about it i was the only mum out of any of my mum and babys groups or my friends from hospital that was still bf by then.

me and millysmum naormi had a little chat about this is the born in dec 08 forum, because she had those comments in work, and one of my best friends told me i was 'verging on weird territory' to still be bfing theo at 13 months!!!!!

i actually stopped the other day, it just felt the right time to do it, but i loved bfing theo, am so happy that i did and so glad i did it for the length of time i did.

it would be interesting to compare with the states, and also with the age of mothers. i feel younger mum's (and i may be completely wrong but just from discussions i've had in mum's and baby's groups) are more shy about bfing in public and this puts them off - we should have much better facilities and maybe that would improve the stats? what do you think?

LadyTottington · Jan 22, 2010 7:53PM

Wow, those are shocking stats - I know our rates were low, but I didn't realise they were that low!

I'm in a real minority in that I am still bf'ing my little girl at 2yrs & 1mth! (I doubt they even have stats for that lol!). It is a big secret - only a select few know this - my family and a few close friends (all of whom are strong bf'ing advocates). I fear being thought of as some freaky earth-mother (I'm not). And this is part of the problem - bottlefeeding is seen as the norm by a lot of people.

I have actually been trying (with great difficulty) to wean her off but she's having none of it! I bf my 2 older boys for 12mths and 14 mths, but had no trouble weaning them off it.

I think it's such a shame that our rates are so low, when countries like Norway are so successful - I wonder where we went wrong?

I myself was lucky, in that my mum bf all her children, and my hubby was very supportive. I actually struggled for the first few weeks with ds1, but I did persevere and it was the best thing I ever did!

Mx

WoWbabies · Jan 22, 2010 8:53PM

i totally agree it is too few, but i just wanted to point out i mix fed ds unitl he was 7 month, uptilm 3 weeks he was ebf, and from then to 14 weeks he was only having one ff a day and all the reast ff, but that means i am on of those that brings that % down as i wasn't exclusively breastfeeding so where at 6 weeks it says only 21% are ebf, i'm i was in the other 79% that weren't. i wld be interested to see figures for fully bf, mix fed and ff, maybe theres more mixfeeders about, which is why the number seems so low, but just to bare in mind taht taht 79% areznt all fully ff babies. the one thing that annoys me is when ppl say they 'can't' bf, when they can, they just find it easier to ff, which is fine, but be honest and say so rather than hiding behind excuses which don't even add up. it especially annoys me when (like a friend of mine) they say its becasue the had a c section, that doesn't stop u bf, or lactose intolerance, again that doesnt stop it, jsut means u have to cut dairy out urself, doesn't mean u can't bf at all!

i also find that general societies attitud to breastfeeding is appaling! my friend once commented when she came into my house that she was pleased i didn't creep her out by bf my ds while she was there, he was only 5mobths old for goodness sake, and its my bloody house and my bloody boobs, i'll do what i like tyvm! i myself had no bf friends, and no one in my family ever bf either, i only made it because i took myself back to the birth centre when ds was 10days old and pleaded for help. and it was my mum infact who pushed me into the mixfeeding, it was her who turned up at my door with ff carton after discussing me with her eneighbour who was a nurse (grrr)

it is weird however that belgium for instance, doesn't have anywhere nr as much 'support' breastfeeding groups, helplines, campaigns etc as we do, yet there bf rates are much higher than ours, it makes u wonder why? why are our rates so very low....probably because we have too few midwives who can help, our midwives are over run in any 'normal' hospital and the lack of educcation pre bf, in bvelgium they don't sugar coat it, they let u know inadvance that it is hard work, and about growth spurts etc so ur prepapred and when baby is crying for food 24/7 u don't assume its ur lack of milk, u assume (quite rightly) that it is part and parcel, beacuse u know already.

xxx

LadyTottington · Jan 22, 2010 9:19PM

Siany you're so right - I read and agreed with your comments on the other thread on baby.

People give up after 24hrs - often saying they have no milk and the baby is hungry. Perhaps if the truth were told - that baby is sucking and sucking for those first few days but not getting much - more people would be successful!

My milk didn't come in until day 4 or 5 - but I knew it was ok before and you just feed and feed baby and let baby suckle because that's was brings the milk in!

LIttle babies can be unsettled at first - maybe people turn to formula to quickly?

Mx

LadyTottington · Jan 22, 2010 9:20PM

Siany you're so right - I read and agreed with your comments on the other thread on baby.

People give up after 24hrs - often saying they have no milk and the baby is hungry. Perhaps if the truth were told - that baby is sucking and sucking for those first few days but not getting much - more people would be successful!

My milk didn't come in until day 4 or 5 - but I knew it was ok before and you just feed and feed baby and let baby suckle because that's was brings the milk in!

LIttle babies can be unsettled at first - maybe people turn to formula to quickly?

Mx

WoWbabies · Jan 22, 2010 9:51PM

i honestly think that is it, we're all told by people 'in the know' that 'baby will know what to do', that it will all come naturally....my arse! lol. it sets people up to think its gonna be a breeze and then when baby is being a bugger latching etc in the firt day or two (took me that revisit at ten days old to sort that out) or feedinga ll night the presume they haven't got enough...there was a poster up on the wall by the main door in the hospital i had ds (one and only poster i saw ever) saying that in the first couple of days u produce but one teaspoon of milk per day, and by the end of the first week u can produce an egg cup pre feed, which still isn't v much at all, considering ff babies are often started off on 2-3oz from first feed...but women happen upon this and assume its thier fault, that they can't do it as thier boobs are failing them and it is just completely not the case. it was like i said before if u know the 'darkside' of it then ur not freaked out when it happens. i remember being sooo worried that ds was getting no milk on several occasions cos he wld jsut not stop crying for food, i wld pho,e my mw/hv and she wld say how old is he? i wld say..10/2weeks/4weeks etc and answer wld be the same....growth spurt, well why not warn me? then i wldn't be goi,g out o my mind with worry grrr! but i think they think if they told the honest truth that less peole wld try it, but i think yeh maybe 5 out 100 less wld but 20more wld carryon longer. same goes with just bein,g pregnant ...why do people feel the need to sugar coat these things...it doesn't actually help anyone in the long run....apparantly those stretching pain cramps are soo normal, everyone gets them in early pregnancy, yet why does no one tell u? u only find out its normal when u come on a site like this and ask because u think there might be something wrong. i just think the way its being 'marketed' atm just sets people up to think its gonna be easy and then when reality hits that it is in fact hard people can't face it cos they were never prepared for that. also think that shoving babies on boobs then walking off is not the way to help a mum who is struggling with her latch. and it is amazing how few people realise that no matter what birth they had, or even onc they've been discharged u can go and stay in a birthcentre for 24/7 help for as long as u need....no one knows this, and i think if more people knew that it is hard but there is proper help available then our stats wld climb

xx

WoWbabies · Jan 22, 2010 9:58PM

hmmm, another thought just came to me, i was wondering on how uk compares to those country with higher bf stats in regards to convenience foods and the such like? i'm just wondering if there is a direct coalition to the fact tht the uk on the whole is a fan as everything easy as possible, fast food etc and perhaps countries such as norway etc are on the whole far more self sufficient, i do have a friend from norway and i recall him comenting quite frequently that most people catch their own fish etc, or know someone who catches it for them, grow veg etc......or maybe thats just clutching at straws and making myself look rather silly lol xx

pbob · Jan 23, 2010 5:16AM

Just to add that . I've never fed in public (tried but felt very self conscious and stressed doing it). It's actually been easy not to, you have to stop and find somewhere to warm a bottle so it was no different stopping and finding somewhere to feed. Lots of places have great feeding rooms-marks and spencer, tesco, debenhams or I'd plan my trip around feed times so that I'd be back home or I'd pop back to the car etc, it can be done if your determined enough x

[Modified by: pixiebob on January 23, 2010 09:57 AM]

EnglebertW_nkface · Jan 23, 2010 9:28AM

I think the reason that coutries have much higher bfing rates, without seeming to have more support is down to the attitude to bfing in the country as a whole. In countries where bfing is normal (for want of a better word) people recieve suport from their families. If your mum, your gran, your aunties, your sisters have all bfed then you are a lot less likey to need support from medical professionals, you have a ready made support network. In this country ffing has been the norm for so many years that we've lost that, so many new mums are reliant on outside help, which is sadly lacking. I don't think the bfing rates are something that can be improved quickly. In my opinion it is going to take generations for the rates to creep back up as sucessive generations have more family and peer support iyswim?

WoWbabies · Jan 23, 2010 10:33AM

pixiebob, u raise a good point there, but in the twon i used to live and infact where i live now there is nowhere to bf a lo, now u can do it in cafe's etc but if like me ur v self conscious then not really an option, there are no feeding rooms at all, the boots are tooo small to have one and there isn't a mothercare or tesco etc local, they're at the new big retail centre which is 45minute walk away or 15minute bus ride, where as all the clothes shops and my beloved primark (lol) are only 10minute walk, but then there is nowhere to feed, when i lived where i did before if i was out i wld have to bf ds on a bench on the seafront with millions of ppl walking past and 'nodding' my way, i hated it, which was the reason i switched that feed to a ff and i don't drive so didn't have a car to retreat to either. the only place in the immediate town to feed other than in a cafe is the really skanky public toilets.

but just wanted to say that those stats don't take into account mixfeeders, history girl for example will e considered inthe % against exclusively bf, as thats what those stats are, exclusively bf, the 79% left for example, aren't all fully ff either, iyswim?

also yes bedhead, the genrations in other countris can all help, family members etc, but why then are there so few of our mums and nans (for example) that can help us with it? why were our parents and grandparents so taken in by ff when other ocuntries weren't? is that generally britain has always been a nation of prudes? whispering the word 'sex' lol, and men (at that time) not being in the birth room, and it just not being seen as 'the done thing' to get ur boobs out and feed, but why did britain have this notion but other countries seem not tonhave done? xxx

EnglebertW_nkface · Jan 23, 2010 11:02AM

I'm kind of guessing a bit as this was all (quite a long way) before my time, but as I understand it when formula was introduced (in the 40's I think) it was massively advertised over here, with the doctors being given big bonuses from the formula companies to push it to new mothers. It also fitted in well with the beliefs at the time that anything 'new' and scientific had to be better, obviously we are a little more sceptical these days! Formula was also very expensive, so it was seen as a status symbol, the poor bfed, the rich ffed. Unfortunately attitudes like these take a very long time to overturn, and although I don't think you'd find anyone ffing as a status symbol anymore I think in some sections of society there is still a bit of a tendancy to think of bfing as something a bit icky that 'people like us' just don't do iyswim. I'm guessing that formula was invented in America, and that they got the vast majority of the advertising budgets over there, but we are a country of sheep when it comes to following anything the USA are doing so maybe that's why if affected us so much as well. I presume that the countries that didn't switch wholesale to formula weren't on the receiving end of the advert, or maybe they just ignored them

I understand what you and Thehistory girl are saying about mixed feeding. I think these figures do give a slightly misleading idea of how many babies are bfed as there are a lot that, like you say, are mainly bfed with the occasional ffeed as well. I did find some figures online that I quoted in another thread that were much higher, I think the figure quoted for bfing at 6 months was 20%, so maybe those were the figures for babies receiving SOME bfeeds?

I think I am lucky that I am naturally stubbon and actually used to enjoy feeding in public. It was lovely to have an excuse to drop whatever I was doing and go and sit on my backside (really wish arse didn't get starred out

) for 30 mins with a coffee while they had a feed.

xx

TheHistoryGirl1 · Jan 23, 2010 5:23PM

So, have just checked and the stats from the US CDC (Center for Disease Control) are interesting. THEY break it down by exclusively breastfeeding and some breastfeeding - but the most recent I can find is 2008. The numbers are:
Percent ever breastfed: 73.9 percent
Percent breastfeeding at 6 months: 43.4 percent
Percent *exclusively* breastfeeding at 6 months: 13.6 percent
Percent *exclusively* breastfeeding at 3 months: 33.1 percent
Percent breastfeeding at 12 months: 22.7 percent

So, considerably better than our stats, although I would still love to know what percentage express and give breast milk in a bottle and how this is counted. Personally, I argue that Peter was exclusively breastfed until nine months (other than solids) because, although he had a bottle every night, it was of EBM so he only ever had breast milk until then, never formula. Definitions can be so confusing, can't they?

Bedhead, one reason that formula was so popular in this country when it was first introduced was because of rationing during the war. New mothers were undernourished (like the rest of the population) which made successful feeding harder. Plus, a fat baby was seen as a healthy baby in the circumstances, so the rapid weight gain that formula gives was seen as a positive. The same didn't apply to the US, which may be why there is now more of a culture of breastfeeding there, although feeding in public is still rather 'earth motherish' there as well. Certainly, I wouldn't have felt comfortable feeding in public when we were in New York, and I have fed militantly in public here!

EnglebertW_nkface · Jan 23, 2010 6:03PM

Ahhh, that makes sense, I hadn't thought about it in context with the war and rationing. It's quite strange the way attitudes to public feeding vary round the world. I felt far more uncomfortable bfing in Spain in public than I do here despite the fact that their bfing rates are much higher than our, it's just that they tend not to feed openly in public there, I guess the USA is similar.
xx

WoWbabies · Jan 23, 2010 6:12PM

wldn't places like france, holland, belgium, austria, germany etc etc all have had to deal with rationing too? in which case i wonder why it has not had such a lasting effect on breastfeeding views there, perhaps tho as these were all countries under occupation many women cldn't get out to get any formula, so bf was only choice if they wnated baby fed... xxx

[Modified by: siany on January 23, 2010 10:13 PM]

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