I'm not having a go, but I just think that sometimes eberyone gets tarded with the same brush unnessessarily.
Believe me, I know there are people out there who have children who really don't deserve them - I see it on an almost daily basis, but my point was that a lot of the comments above were based on 'probably' implying that they have just been assumed.
I don't agree with what the tenant has done Lady2188 but it doens't nessessarily mean she doesn't deserve to be a mum.
Also if anyone genuinly believes that a child is not a priority in their parents lives, then social services should be infomred of it.
I HATE smoking but I have let people smoke around lo (though obviously not blow it in his face). My sister smokes and I can't tell her to stop smoking in her own home - we hardly see her so I don't see the harm in it every couple of months. Smoking while holding kids is awful though, what if you dropped ash on them?? Yuck. I was more conscious of it when lo was younger, I used to bath lo straight after my sister held him. But it doesn't bother me as much now - realistically, lo inhaling a small amount of smoke for 2 hours once every 3 months, I doubt it'll do any harm, you prob inhale more smoke walking through town!
Can I just speak from someone on the other side of the story though? I was 19 when I had my lo (not planned), I was 39 weeks pregnant and I got on the bus .... this awful woman blah-ed on and on about when are you due, was it planned, "I'm 41 and I dont think I could get pregnant now, I've never had kids" (You're some random lady - remind me why I care?), how old are you, "my friends daughter just had a MC and she was 19, it was a blessing really" (What. The. F**K?) It's not very nice if you have an unplanned pregnancy that everyone assumes you're scum ... I know quite a few teen/young parents ... they are good parents, not people out to get council houses. OK people like me - I've never worked full time I've worked part time since I was 16 apart from my pregnancy and lo's first year.
I don't agree with getting pregnant just to get a council house though. It's wrong...though it is true if you have a child you can get a lot more benefits. We get a fair bit for having one, and we both work, God knows how much you get with 9 kids and not working. I really cant stand those benefits mums who can't even be bothered to clean - yuck - this is a bit Hyacinth Bucket of me but think i'd be more disgusted by the dirty house or dirty child than the fact she got pg to get a council house!
Oh dear - that's twisted....but if you have children planned or not, you need to grow up n look after them
can i just say i will say to someone in their own home not to smoke in front of my son,friends and ESP family should understand be it their house or not
can i just say i will say to someone in their own home not to smoke in front of my son,friends and ESP family should understand be it their house or not That's fine we all have different opinions, mine is I can't ask someone in their own home not to smoke - it's their choice and my choice whether I bring my son in there...Smoking is bad but no other family smoke so I do not see the harm in lo being around it once every couple of months. But I can see why people DO ban smoking completely, its a personal decision.
I used to know a family who did not want to leave their baby dd alone, but did not want to smoke in the front room so they used to take her into the tiny utility room with them to smoke - NOT GOOD! - if you want to smoke whatever but why not take turns to go outside or put her in jumperoo/ play pen and go outside?!
I don't think this thread was about tarring everyone with the same brush it was about those out their who see benefits as their right. The system is their for those who need it, you shouldn't be able/or want to plan a life around the system.
In my situation, its pretty obvious given she knew she was going to be evicted from her privately rented property as to why she went and got pg and the council should consider that but they dont. Its more than annoying that I'm up for work right now, ill drive passed my new house to get there and see all of the curtains closed because the lazy gits in bed! (Now I'm off again look lol)!
I have no problem with people claiming fair benefits, most of those people have put money in before the need arises for them to take it out. People who abuse the system give the genuine claimers a bad name!
This is a tricky topic. I was bought up on benifits cos my mum did a runner when I was 3 and bro was 18 months old. Dad was 23 yrs old and he raised us by himself. He couldn't afford childcare on his wages, so he gave up work to bring us up and we lived off benifits.
A lot of comments on this thread seem to state that being on benifits is a really bad thing, and it seems very judgemental. Some people need these benifits, and its not really for us to judge other people on how they earn their living.
Stace, I can only speak for myself here but I don't judge people who are on benefits because they have found themselves in unfortunate circumstances. I do however get very annoyed at people such as my cousin who are to all intents benefits cheats. She claims money she is not entitled to, has no intention of ever going back to work and neither does her boyfriend. They claim to be single and have a house, a flat, plus full job seekers benefits for him and child benefits for her.
I find this behaviour abhorrent, particularly when my friend's poor father had to sell the family home to fund basic care for himself in the latter stages of his battle with Parkinson's disease.
Im with grudie on this one. I gave up smoking the second i suspected i was pregnant and have not resumed smoking since. If i have stopped smoking for the sake of my child whether unborn or here i am sure as hell not having anyone else smoking in their presence. I am not asking them to quit full stop but rather just for an hour or so go outside and do it. If they say no i say bye! Next time i will see them in a place where smoking is prohibited. problem solved.
As for the benefits, it seems that we all forget ( and i am very guilty od this) that there are some people who genuinly need benefits and those people will have most likely contributed to the tax and NI system and have a right to be able to claim when they fall on hard times. Like everyone else i am sick of paying for scrounging gits who cant be arsed to get a job coz this country gives them everything on a plate. people DO get pregnant to get more benefits , bigger houses, regardless of council policy on sleeping arrangements. I have to use birth to control to limit my family expansion despite the fact i would love to have more kids than we could comfortably afford we wont as we are responsible parents. Stop scrounging, put a condom on!
hey girls i don't like to comment on other people situations i just have some info for people that want to move to florida/usa well to get to move there you either need to have a good profession and that depends as there is a long waiting list then theres having someone over there you know that will say they will support you ect ect .. and then theres get a job over there that will sponsor you but then they will have to justifie why you can go there over so many applicants then theres having 500k in funds or investments ie a house hope this helps that the only info i know as we want to move to florida or USA better eduction for the kids they learn alot more my OH mother goes on website for education and they have loads and my kids are doing better that what the school are doing they keep asking me why my 5 year old know stuff shes never been tought at school i say well learn something from the Americans then lol i just think if england put in as much as the USA then we would be a better country sorry about the long post
the reason i don't comment as i don't smoke myself but my mum does but never holds the children or blows in there face she wait at least an hour before she lets the kids sit with her as thats what the HV she was not allowed to hold baby for at least an hour and as its her house she tells me i have no right to tell where to smoke but i feel for my kids but i must admit she is trying to give up and both my children where hard to conceive hoping to have baby #3 soon i am telling my mum to smoke outside from monday as i am doing the house out and for my kids health and that that my OH works and i don't not yet anyway i left my job as i had baby number 2 then i went back to work nov 2008 then to lose my job as he was closing down some of his branches so lost it last march i so loved that job then i had another one in dec but lost it in jan as i had 3 days off ill then he closed down that shop i am staying home till sept that is when my 3 year old goes to full time school then i am hoping to get into college to resit exams to then go on to access to higher education then to go uni to become a midwife we do get working tax credit and child tax credit but my OH does not get enough wages and he works 40 hours aweek so we don't get to spend much time with him sorry rambling again
[Modified by: emmajanesmith on March 18, 2010 11:49 AM]
Hi, I have to say I have a sister who is just like some of the people you have described. She got pregnant at 16 and has never had a job in her life. She is now 25 and has 5 kids plus her niece on her OH's side who lives with them. She gets her rent paid, council tax, loads in child benefit, tax credits and is in the position where they can afford to save up money for a holiday to Spain this year. 2 of the kids got new laptops for Christmas!! Her OH "technically" lives in a flat around the corner, which is paid for by benefits too. When i met him 8 years agao i asked him what he does for a living he told me he was a qualified barman (yes really) but has made no real attempt to work. I got him a part time job where i work a couple of years ago as an industrial cleaner but he wouldn't take instructions from people and was out on his ear within 3 weeks, quite embarrassing for me as i got him the job!! He actually believed that he should have come in at a supervision level!!! That is the only knowledge I have of him attempting to work in the 8 years I have know him.
I have worked since I left college at 17, I bought a house when i was 22 and had an 8 month old son and have never been out of work since. Although if the need were to arise and i needed to claim benefits then I would do so in a flash as I have paid into the system. It's the people that can work but won't work that really get my back up, and yes a member of my own family is guilty of that for which I am ashamed of her. I actually asked her eldest daughter last year what she wanted to do when she grew up and she said she wanted to be a mummy and that she would get her money from the post office like her mummy does. It's a very contentious subject, but there are people out there that are deserving of the benefits they claim, but unfortunately we hear more about the people that don't deserve them!!
She was given a 2 week eviction notice which would have resulted in a bailiff removing her from the property but low and behold, she contested it on the grounds that she's pregnant again. We have been sent a copy of the form that she's had to fill in and it goes something like this...
Is there a reason why you need more than 14 days to allow for the possession of this property to take place that will cause you extreme hardship"
Her answer, "I am a single mom and have just found out i am expecting my second chilld in the autumn. Need to change housing application accordingly"
"If so how many days do you think you will need (the court cannot allow more than 42 days)"
Her answer "42 days."
"Will you cover any further costs to the vendor" Her answer "i am in receipt of income support, child tax credits and some other benefit i can't bloody remember now!!
42 F*ckIn days to change a housing application!!!!!! I really hope they tell her to shove it and get down their tomorrow!
To say i am annoyed would be an understatement. Luckily my landlord has allowed me another month in the flat so i won't have to move in with my mom (
I've just sat down to do some uni work and i'm so angry i can't even concentrate :x:x:x
Hmm contentious issue but maybe one that we 'pussy foot' around too often? Like most of you I work full time and can barely afford the second baby we are trying for due to nursery fees etc. I guess if we didn't own our own home and rented from the council we could have lots of kids and I wouldn't need to work. But it's imp to me to own my own home and not place a financial burden on society. My blood boils when I see or hear of these people who 'breed' (which is what they do) litters of 5+ kids and expect everyone else to pay for them. I am fairly liberal in my outlook but do think we have gone too far as a country. On the other hand I have seen (work with kids) where social services is truly needed and kids are placed in hostels etc and quite rightly funded. Unfortunately, this is often the case of poor parenting. Hmmm wonder who I will vote for in the election?!!! I think the number of decent hard working people with a sound work ethic having children is becoming greatly outnumbered by those who don't and their children, who in turn have children and so the cycle continues. Before we know it there weren't be enough people paying into yhr tax system to fund everything, incluidng those who don't. Rant over for now.
I can understand why women with kids do not work as sometimes the childcare costs just eclipse your wages. When im at work my son's nan has him but if she couldn't I couldn't afford to work more than 2 days a week and I do 3....
With 5 children the childcare would be astronomical not to mention the stress - but there's no excuse for the blokes not to be working and supporting the family, imo (or indeed the women working and the man staying home!)
I do a lot of legal aid work and nothing irritates me more when some of my clients who have never worked a day in their lives nor has it entered their heads to ever seek work say "I get paid on Monday". I can't stop myself from saying you are not getting paid you are in receipt on benefits.
I hasten to add that I also have a lot of clients who are on benefits because of awful circumstances where their partner has left them in a financial mess or where childcare costs are so much that it's more expensive to work than not.
If I fell on hard times I'd expect to claim benefit without being labelled a scrounger as I've paid huge amounts of tax and national insurance for years.
I think it's the people who expect the state to pay for them and their children forever with no thought to take responsibility for their own children who they have brought into the world.
As for smoking, I'm with Grudie. If anyone smoked near my child I would leave. No question. x x
Mafia Princess - My oh's dad lost his job about 18 months ago and was out of work for quite a while. The job centre would not give him benefits because his wife worked over 24 hours a week - but she was a childminder and only had 1 child in her care and earnt next to nothing- but they didn't take her wages even into account, and they had to rely on my OH to pay their mortgage for a few months which can't have been nice for them. I may be wrong but I don't think the law favours working couples or home owners at all - nearly ALL couples base their mortgage on their current income, not just their partner's, but apparently 1 wage is enough to cover a whole mortgage and bills if they fall on hard times. We looked at taking out Income protection insurance but it was so expensive, and didn't even pay out until you'd been out of work for 3 months. When my ohs dad lost his job and things were bad for them I actually told my oh's mother to quit work so that they could get some help but she wouldn't. I definitely think the government just assumes naturally hard working people will be able to get another job but pussyfoot around the people who refuse to work. By refuse to work I mean couples who neither of them work and have no intention of working, and aren't disabled or having problems xx
Sadly I work in an environment where a large proportion of my clients are in benefit culture. They have never worked, have no aspiration to work, their children don't think it's normal to work and the cycle goes on. There is no thought or worry about the expense of having a new baby as it will all be paid for.
It's very sad as people who genuinely need to be on benefits get tarred with the same brush. My dad was made redundant after 30 years when I was 15 and money was tight and he was on JSA. He worked bloody hard and paid his taxes and he got something back when he needed it the most.
I think if you fall into the catagory where you have a decent job but you're not on a super high wage you're screwed!x
Replies
Believe me, I know there are people out there who have children who really don't deserve them - I see it on an almost daily basis, but my point was that a lot of the comments above were based on 'probably' implying that they have just been assumed.
I don't agree with what the tenant has done Lady2188 but it doens't nessessarily mean she doesn't deserve to be a mum.
Also if anyone genuinly believes that a child is not a priority in their parents lives, then social services should be infomred of it.
xxx
Can I just speak from someone on the other side of the story though? I was 19 when I had my lo (not planned), I was 39 weeks pregnant and I got on the bus .... this awful woman blah-ed on and on about when are you due, was it planned, "I'm 41 and I dont think I could get pregnant now, I've never had kids" (You're some random lady - remind me why I care?), how old are you, "my friends daughter just had a MC and she was 19, it was a blessing really" (What. The. F**K?) It's not very nice if you have an unplanned pregnancy that everyone assumes you're scum ... I know quite a few teen/young parents ... they are good parents, not people out to get council houses. OK people like me - I've never worked full time I've worked part time since I was 16 apart from my pregnancy and lo's first year.
I don't agree with getting pregnant just to get a council house though. It's wrong...though it is true if you have a child you can get a lot more benefits. We get a fair bit for having one, and we both work, God knows how much you get with 9 kids and not working. I really cant stand those benefits mums who can't even be bothered to clean - yuck - this is a bit Hyacinth Bucket of me but think i'd be more disgusted by the dirty house or dirty child than the fact she got pg to get a council house!
Oh dear - that's twisted....but if you have children planned or not, you need to grow up n look after them
x
That's fine we all have different opinions, mine is I can't ask someone in their own home not to smoke - it's their choice and my choice whether I bring my son in there...Smoking is bad but no other family smoke so I do not see the harm in lo being around it once every couple of months. But I can see why people DO ban smoking completely, its a personal decision.
I used to know a family who did not want to leave their baby dd alone, but did not want to smoke in the front room so they used to take her into the tiny utility room with them to smoke - NOT GOOD! - if you want to smoke whatever but why not take turns to go outside or put her in jumperoo/ play pen and go outside?!
we were at a kids party once when Lennon was nearly a year and someone started smoking in front of him...the cough he had the next day was horrendous
as i see if you can die from passive smoking but if your outside at least you get some kind of air also
not having a go chick just think people should understand why you ask them so
In my situation, its pretty obvious given she knew she was going to be evicted from her privately rented property as to why she went and got pg and the council should consider that but they dont. Its more than annoying that I'm up for work right now, ill drive passed my new house to get there and see all of the curtains closed because the lazy gits in bed! (Now I'm off again look lol)!
I have no problem with people claiming fair benefits, most of those people have put money in before the need arises for them to take it out. People who abuse the system give the genuine claimers a bad name!
A lot of comments on this thread seem to state that being on benifits is a really bad thing, and it seems very judgemental. Some people need these benifits, and its not really for us to judge other people on how they earn their living.
I find this behaviour abhorrent, particularly when my friend's poor father had to sell the family home to fund basic care for himself in the latter stages of his battle with Parkinson's disease.
Benifit cheats will be caught tho - my aunti claimed 50K of benifits that she was not entitled to and got caught. She was in prison for 18 months.
I believe that they will get caught if they are not entitled eventually Mrs R - so they will get whats coming to them.
People like that give all people on benifits a bad name and its not right.
Im with grudie on this one. I gave up smoking the second i suspected i was pregnant and have not resumed smoking since. If i have stopped smoking for the sake of my child whether unborn or here i am sure as hell not having anyone else smoking in their presence. I am not asking them to quit full stop but rather just for an hour or so go outside and do it. If they say no i say bye! Next time i will see them in a place where smoking is prohibited. problem solved.
As for the benefits, it seems that we all forget ( and i am very guilty od this) that there are some people who genuinly need benefits and those people will have most likely contributed to the tax and NI system and have a right to be able to claim when they fall on hard times. Like everyone else i am sick of paying for scrounging gits who cant be arsed to get a job coz this country gives them everything on a plate. people DO get pregnant to get more benefits , bigger houses, regardless of council policy on sleeping arrangements. I have to use birth to control to limit my family expansion despite the fact i would love to have more kids than we could comfortably afford we wont as we are responsible parents. Stop scrounging, put a condom on!
the reason i don't comment as i don't smoke myself but my mum does but never holds the children or blows in there face she wait at least an hour before she lets the kids sit with her as thats what the HV she was not allowed to hold baby for at least an hour and as its her house she tells me i have no right to tell where to smoke but i feel for my kids but i must admit she is trying to give up and both my children where hard to conceive hoping to have baby #3 soon i am telling my mum to smoke outside from monday as i am doing the house out and for my kids health and that that my OH works and i don't not yet anyway i left my job as i had baby number 2 then i went back to work nov 2008 then to lose my job as he was closing down some of his branches so lost it last march i so loved that job then i had another one in dec but lost it in jan as i had 3 days off ill then he closed down that shop i am staying home till sept that is when my 3 year old goes to full time school then i am hoping to get into college to resit exams to then go on to access to higher education then to go uni to become a midwife we do get working tax credit and child tax credit but my OH does not get enough wages and he works 40 hours aweek so we don't get to spend much time with him sorry rambling again
[Modified by: emmajanesmith on March 18, 2010 11:49 AM]
I have to say I have a sister who is just like some of the people you have described. She got pregnant at 16 and has never had a job in her life. She is now 25 and has 5 kids plus her niece on her OH's side who lives with them. She gets her rent paid, council tax, loads in child benefit, tax credits and is in the position where they can afford to save up money for a holiday to Spain this year. 2 of the kids got new laptops for Christmas!! Her OH "technically" lives in a flat around the corner, which is paid for by benefits too. When i met him 8 years agao i asked him what he does for a living he told me he was a qualified barman (yes really) but has made no real attempt to work. I got him a part time job where i work a couple of years ago as an industrial cleaner but he wouldn't take instructions from people and was out on his ear within 3 weeks, quite embarrassing for me as i got him the job!! He actually believed that he should have come in at a supervision level!!! That is the only knowledge I have of him attempting to work in the 8 years I have know him.
I have worked since I left college at 17, I bought a house when i was 22 and had an 8 month old son and have never been out of work since. Although if the need were to arise and i needed to claim benefits then I would do so in a flash as I have paid into the system. It's the people that can work but won't work that really get my back up, and yes a member of my own family is guilty of that for which I am ashamed of her. I actually asked her eldest daughter last year what she wanted to do when she grew up and she said she wanted to be a mummy and that she would get her money from the post office like her mummy does. It's a very contentious subject, but there are people out there that are deserving of the benefits they claim, but unfortunately we hear more about the people that don't deserve them!!
She was given a 2 week eviction notice which would have resulted in a bailiff removing her from the property but low and behold, she contested it on the grounds that she's pregnant again. We have been sent a copy of the form that she's had to fill in and it goes something like this...
Is there a reason why you need more than 14 days to allow for the possession of this property to take place that will cause you extreme hardship"
Her answer, "I am a single mom and have just found out i am expecting my second chilld in the autumn. Need to change housing application accordingly"
"If so how many days do you think you will need (the court cannot allow more than 42 days)"
Her answer "42 days."
"Will you cover any further costs to the vendor"
Her answer "i am in receipt of income support, child tax credits and some other benefit i can't bloody remember now!!
42 F*ckIn days to change a housing application!!!!!! I really hope they tell her to shove it and get down their tomorrow!
To say i am annoyed would be an understatement. Luckily my landlord has allowed me another month in the flat so i won't have to move in with my mom
I've just sat down to do some uni work and i'm so angry i can't even concentrate :x:x:x
Sorry for the rant, but it's just so unfair!
Bloody mumper! x
Like most of you I work full time and can barely afford the second baby we are trying for due to nursery fees etc. I guess if we didn't own our own home and rented from the council we could have lots of kids and I wouldn't need to work. But it's imp to me to own my own home and not place a financial burden on society.
My blood boils when I see or hear of these people who 'breed' (which is what they do) litters of 5+ kids and expect everyone else to pay for them. I am fairly liberal in my outlook but do think we have gone too far as a country. On the other hand I have seen (work with kids) where social services is truly needed and kids are placed in hostels etc and quite rightly funded. Unfortunately, this is often the case of poor parenting.
Hmmm wonder who I will vote for in the election?!!!
I think the number of decent hard working people with a sound work ethic having children is becoming greatly outnumbered by those who don't and their children, who in turn have children and so the cycle continues.
Before we know it there weren't be enough people paying into yhr tax system to fund everything, incluidng those who don't.
Rant over for now.
With 5 children the childcare would be astronomical not to mention the stress - but there's no excuse for the blokes not to be working and supporting the family, imo (or indeed the women working and the man staying home!)
I hasten to add that I also have a lot of clients who are on benefits because of awful circumstances where their partner has left them in a financial mess or where childcare costs are so much that it's more expensive to work than not.
If I fell on hard times I'd expect to claim benefit without being labelled a scrounger as I've paid huge amounts of tax and national insurance for years.
I think it's the people who expect the state to pay for them and their children forever with no thought to take responsibility for their own children who they have brought into the world.
As for smoking, I'm with Grudie. If anyone smoked near my child I would leave. No question. x x
Sadly I work in an environment where a large proportion of my clients are in benefit culture. They have never worked, have no aspiration to work, their children don't think it's normal to work and the cycle goes on. There is no thought or worry about the expense of having a new baby as it will all be paid for.
It's very sad as people who genuinely need to be on benefits get tarred with the same brush. My dad was made redundant after 30 years when I was 15 and money was tight and he was on JSA. He worked bloody hard and paid his taxes and he got something back when he needed it the most.
I think if you fall into the catagory where you have a decent job but you're not on a super high wage you're screwed!x