It's very good of MrsSetters to impart another of her incontestable moral aphorisms for the greater good, but life isn't this black and white for the rest of us mere mortals.
Gosh MrsButtons, I didn't know your story. Wow. WILL you ever ttc again, do you think? Please don't feel you have to reply.
Oh, will you PISS OFF! People are voicing thier opinions on a media article and I added mine, which I'm entitled to do. I;m not getting at, flaming or criticising a forum member, I'm just having my say like everyone else. You've made it perfectly clear you dislike me and find my posts insufferable, so how about just ignoring them instead of making snide nasty comments all the fucking time, hm? It's beyond tiresome.
[Modified by: MrsSetters on June 25, 2010 08:37 PM]
Mrs buttons I seriously could have wrote your post, even down to the amount of weight lost! It's so lonely and isolating but you're right I think it did make the bond stronger between me and dd too as it was literally me her and four walls, be they home or hospital lol, for pretty much the whole pregnancy.
I hope you and OH work things out, I know I was so scared my bf was going to leave me over how bad things got at one point but we are ok now and I hope you'll work it out too xxxxx
I don't feel sorry for her either. She took a chance and it backfired and she did what she had to do to look after her girl. It begs the question why a 5 year old was at home when she should have been at school or why her husband couldn't have taken some time off to look after her...but surely a joiner is off at the weekends no? Also, where was her family? and why didn't the hospitals help?
I feel sorry for the situaion, but I do beleive that for my baby, I would do anything and everything to make sure he and I had the best possible care. I wouldn't even see termination as a possibility as to me, like Mrs Setters has said, I would see myself as already a parent and therefore responsible. Its the same reason I gave up smoking. That was god damn hard but I did it for my baby. Thats not on par with HG though but you get my drift.
I feel that she should have either taken more constraceptive precautions (it doesnt actually state she was TTC) or willingly accept that this may happen again and plan for said HG to return.
You cannot play around with little lives, you can't try and fall pregnant only to terminate it at a later date..its like pulling the wings off a fly imo. cruel and unneccessary
First, Mrs buttons and jens mum (and anyone else who has had it) how brave of you. I have seen how it affects a pregnancy.
My friend hs 3 boys and had such severe sickness that she spent most of the first 20 weeks in hosp on drips and the rest of the pregancy ill on the sofa or in bed. She knew it was going to happen and therefore left decent gaps between her kids. She also made sure she had a plan in place for help with childcare etc.. not easy at all but, she felt it was worth it for the family she wanted.
I think its a good thing that this woman has gone public but it would have been a much nicer story if she had showed how she managed to keep the baby and care for her 5 yr old( however the papers would not have found that such an interesting story would they) I have a 4 and 6 yr old (amongst others) and I appreciate a 5yr old needs looking after but not to the point that she needed to terminate her other child. A 5 yr old can dress themselves, get their own breakfast, wash themselves..etc.. so therefore dont need constant running around after.
I can see how she must have suffered but I wonder what the repercussions of the termination are going to have on her in later? I also wonder how the will other child feel when it is older and knows that it doesnt have a sibling due to the fact that mummy could not cope with them and the sickness?? Will it blame itself?
It does beg the question though that why are there no safe drugs that can combat this??? Surely in this day and age a drug can be invented to help ladies with this condition.
Tough. I agree the story doesn't add up. If I was in that position my MIL (lovely as she can be) would take time off work to have DS to make sure he was fully cared for.
I can't really judge though - I had sickness and it was truly horrid so can't imagine what that type of extreme sickness is like.
A termination seems extreme, but I can understand what made this woman desperate...
MrsNN - I wasn't strong - I'm not particularly strong! I was a total bloody wreck the whole way through LOL! Had quite severe antenatal and postnatal depression and cried literally every day of my pregnancy and then for a very long time afterwards! But thank you for your lovely words
Dee dee - I was on the strongest anti sickness drugs there are - they didn't work properly! I was still sick every single day of my pregnancy - on bad days and before these drugs, I could be sick every ten minutes - whether I was asleep or not.. With the drugs, it reduced it to about every hour on average.
The main problem is that the drugs aren't licensed for use during pregnancy. It's a question of ethics as they can't really test drugs on an unborn child, which is effectively what they were doing. However, in my case, it was decided that I possibly wouldn't make it through the full term of the pregnancy without the drugs to at least ease my symptoms.
But, there are reports of babies being born with deformities and other problems (with feeding for example) through the use of these drugs - hence why the surgeons were waiting for Miss Daisy... She never did feed well and still a tiddler now (21lbs at 15 months but on the 99th centile for her height!), but other than that, we came out relatively unscathed!!
I do agree with some of you that if it was her 2nd HG pregnancy, why did she do it again? But then, perhaps the first time wasn't as bad? Of course, the other thing is that you (apparently!) forget how bad it was first time around until you are actually faced with the situation again...
I still can't decide whether she was wrong or not - I really can see both sides of this story. I just feel so sorry for her that she had to do this.
I suffered with HG during my last pregnancy - very much similar to MrsButtons. It's awful - truly truly awful. I was hospitalised a few times, lost a lot of weight, and suffered terrible antenatal depression as a result. But, I didn't have it at all with my first child, and all the doctors told me that every pregnancy is different and that just because I suffered during that pregnancy, it's not definate that it would happen if I conceive again.
My husband also gave me the option to terminate when he saw how ill I was for so long - he couldn't bare to see me like that.
I don't have family close by who can stop what they're doing to come and help. All my friends are people I know from work, so they can't drop everything to come and help either. My husband is self emplyed, and while that gives him some flexibility, he wouldn't be able to give up work to come and help.
I completely see why the woman in the article did what she did (although I made the choice that I couldn't personally take that option).
It's very easy to judge people when you're on the outside, but this poor woman didn't make an easy decision to terminate her child, and I'm sure she'll quesion that decision every day.
poppy girl... thats what i was trying to say. I wonder how she will feel when the DD arrives or its first birthday etc.. very sad.
Also, Mrs Buttons... I understand what you mean! Its just a shame that drugs with NO side effects but totally stop the sickness are not around. I know its asking too much but it would be nice if women like you get the pregancies that you should. When I think how much I whined about back ache, heart burn etc.. I feel ashamed.. IF you get preg again I hope you get an easier time of it.
I can't believe how many people have made comments about planning to get pregnant when they suffered sickness in their last pregnancy and yet many think it's ok to get pregnant when not in a good financial situation or are having problems with their OH. Noone gets pregnant under perfect conditions and this woman didn't plan to have an abortion. She just found that her sickness was so bad that it affected her child, her relationship and even her own health. Women have abortions for a lot less.
In fact it's actually legal to abort beyond 24 weeks when it puts the mother's health in danger. It seems to me that her sickness had got to the stage where her own health was under threat. I'm afraid I believe that a living woman has priority over a fetus. Don't get me wrong, I'm against abortion as a whole, but the mother's health has to have priority.
Other similar situations could be: 1) A woman who had had very high blood pressure in one pregnancy and then developed pre-eclampsia in her second at 28 weeks. She was then induced and the premature baby doesn't survive. 2) A woman in remission from cancer gets pregnant. The cancer comes back and she has to abort in order to receive chemotherapy.
In both of these cases the woman knows she has a condition that could put a second pregnancy in jeapody (sp?) but still goes ahead with it. And yet would anyone of us judge them for it - of course not.
I do think it's strange that she wasn't offered support by the NHS or even hospitalised. In fact I think Mrs Buttons case actually sounds worse. It might be that she decided to abort before being hospitalised, after all I might have made the same decision if it was between losing my unborn child or leaving my toddler at home for 7 months whilst I was in hospital. She would be a different child when I came out.
abortion isnt a legal right in norn iron its illegal over here. I'm sure she didn't come to her decision lightly but I would have thought she would have thought more about it before getting pregnant although i take blondefriends point there are many a lady who gets knocked up and aborts with no thought to baby so I suppose she is in the firing line, but she put herself there by going to the press so she's bound to expect backlash.
not in her situation so dont know what i'd do, i'd like to think id be strong enough not to abort as personally its not some thing that I agree with xx
I don't think that any one of us can understand what the poor woman has gone through. I personally have experience of HG, and for me it wasn't a case of being strong. i didn;t have a small child to take care of at the time, and I can tell you that I could barely look after myself, let alone someone who was totally dependant upon me.
Like Blondefriend says, you couldn't leave a young child with someone else for such a long period, it's not fair on them, and they wouldn't be the same child when they returned.
Perhaps the lady in question had been told (as I was) that just because she suffered HG once, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will happen next time. A friend of mine has had 5 babies, and had HG with her middle 2 pregnancies. and the other 3 were problem free. Perhaps she hoped for the best. Either way, I feel for the poor woman, but completely support her decision to do what she felt was right for herself and her family.
Replies
Gosh MrsButtons, I didn't know your story. Wow. WILL you ever ttc again, do you think? Please don't feel you have to reply.
Oh, will you PISS OFF! People are voicing thier opinions on a media article and I added mine, which I'm entitled to do. I;m not getting at, flaming or criticising a forum member, I'm just having my say like everyone else. You've made it perfectly clear you dislike me and find my posts insufferable, so how about just ignoring them instead of making snide nasty comments all the fucking time, hm? It's beyond tiresome.
[Modified by: MrsSetters on June 25, 2010 08:37 PM]
I hope you and OH work things out, I know I was so scared my bf was going to leave me over how bad things got at one point but we are ok now and I hope you'll work it out too xxxxx
MrsSetters and I will not be posting pics of our babies on the "real-life friends" thread, it seems.
MrsSetters and I will not be posting pics of our babies on the "real-life friends" thread, it seems.
I feel sorry for the situaion, but I do beleive that for my baby, I would do anything and everything to make sure he and I had the best possible care. I wouldn't even see termination as a possibility as to me, like Mrs Setters has said, I would see myself as already a parent and therefore responsible. Its the same reason I gave up smoking. That was god damn hard but I did it for my baby. Thats not on par with HG though but you get my drift.
I feel that she should have either taken more constraceptive precautions (it doesnt actually state she was TTC) or willingly accept that this may happen again and plan for said HG to return.
You cannot play around with little lives, you can't try and fall pregnant only to terminate it at a later date..its like pulling the wings off a fly imo. cruel and unneccessary
As Mrs Buttons says you cant really judge until you have been in that position! xx
My friend hs 3 boys and had such severe sickness that she spent most of the first 20 weeks in hosp on drips and the rest of the pregancy ill on the sofa or in bed. She knew it was going to happen and therefore left decent gaps between her kids. She also made sure she had a plan in place for help with childcare etc.. not easy at all but, she felt it was worth it for the family she wanted.
I think its a good thing that this woman has gone public but it would have been a much nicer story if she had showed how she managed to keep the baby and care for her 5 yr old( however the papers would not have found that such an interesting story would they) I have a 4 and 6 yr old (amongst others) and I appreciate a 5yr old needs looking after but not to the point that she needed to terminate her other child. A 5 yr old can dress themselves, get their own breakfast, wash themselves..etc.. so therefore dont need constant running around after.
I can see how she must have suffered but I wonder what the repercussions of the termination are going to have on her in later? I also wonder how the will other child feel when it is older and knows that it doesnt have a sibling due to the fact that mummy could not cope with them and the sickness?? Will it blame itself?
It does beg the question though that why are there no safe drugs that can combat this??? Surely in this day and age a drug can be invented to help ladies with this condition.
d x
[Modified by: dee dee on June 26, 2010 08:20 AM]
I can't really judge though - I had sickness and it was truly horrid so can't imagine what that type of extreme sickness is like.
A termination seems extreme, but I can understand what made this woman desperate...
MrsNN - I wasn't strong - I'm not particularly strong! I was a total bloody wreck the whole way through
Dee dee - I was on the strongest anti sickness drugs there are - they didn't work properly! I was still sick every single day of my pregnancy - on bad days and before these drugs, I could be sick every ten minutes - whether I was asleep or not.. With the drugs, it reduced it to about every hour on average.
The main problem is that the drugs aren't licensed for use during pregnancy. It's a question of ethics as they can't really test drugs on an unborn child, which is effectively what they were doing. However, in my case, it was decided that I possibly wouldn't make it through the full term of the pregnancy without the drugs to at least ease my symptoms.
But, there are reports of babies being born with deformities and other problems (with feeding for example) through the use of these drugs - hence why the surgeons were waiting for Miss Daisy... She never did feed well and still a tiddler now (21lbs at 15 months but on the 99th centile for her height!), but other than that, we came out relatively unscathed!!
I do agree with some of you that if it was her 2nd HG pregnancy, why did she do it again? But then, perhaps the first time wasn't as bad? Of course, the other thing is that you (apparently!) forget how bad it was first time around until you are actually faced with the situation again...
I still can't decide whether she was wrong or not - I really can see both sides of this story. I just feel so sorry for her that she had to do this.
C xx
My husband also gave me the option to terminate when he saw how ill I was for so long - he couldn't bare to see me like that.
I don't have family close by who can stop what they're doing to come and help. All my friends are people I know from work, so they can't drop everything to come and help either. My husband is self emplyed, and while that gives him some flexibility, he wouldn't be able to give up work to come and help.
I completely see why the woman in the article did what she did (although I made the choice that I couldn't personally take that option).
It's very easy to judge people when you're on the outside, but this poor woman didn't make an easy decision to terminate her child, and I'm sure she'll quesion that decision every day.
xxx
Also, Mrs Buttons... I understand what you mean! Its just a shame that drugs with NO side effects but totally stop the sickness are not around. I know its asking too much but it would be nice if women like you get the pregancies that you should. When I think how much I whined about back ache, heart burn etc.. I feel ashamed..
IF you get preg again I hope you get an easier time of it.
d xx
MrsSetters and I will not be posting pics of our babies on the "real-life friends" thread, it seems.
In fact it's actually legal to abort beyond 24 weeks when it puts the mother's health in danger. It seems to me that her sickness had got to the stage where her own health was under threat. I'm afraid I believe that a living woman has priority over a fetus. Don't get me wrong, I'm against abortion as a whole, but the mother's health has to have priority.
Other similar situations could be:
1) A woman who had had very high blood pressure in one pregnancy and then developed pre-eclampsia in her second at 28 weeks. She was then induced and the premature baby doesn't survive.
2) A woman in remission from cancer gets pregnant. The cancer comes back and she has to abort in order to receive chemotherapy.
In both of these cases the woman knows she has a condition that could put a second pregnancy in jeapody (sp?) but still goes ahead with it. And yet would anyone of us judge them for it - of course not.
I do think it's strange that she wasn't offered support by the NHS or even hospitalised. In fact I think Mrs Buttons case actually sounds worse. It might be that she decided to abort before being hospitalised, after all I might have made the same decision if it was between losing my unborn child or leaving my toddler at home for 7 months whilst I was in hospital. She would be a different child when I came out.
H xx
not in her situation so dont know what i'd do, i'd like to think id be strong enough not to abort as personally its not some thing that I agree with xx
Like Blondefriend says, you couldn't leave a young child with someone else for such a long period, it's not fair on them, and they wouldn't be the same child when they returned.
Perhaps the lady in question had been told (as I was) that just because she suffered HG once, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will happen next time. A friend of mine has had 5 babies, and had HG with her middle 2 pregnancies. and the other 3 were problem free. Perhaps she hoped for the best. Either way, I feel for the poor woman, but completely support her decision to do what she felt was right for herself and her family.