I can understand the way it might've come out, Myself and the few people that i know who know her have tried our best to help out - reccomending foods that our kids like, asking if she likes them too, saying that she should be eating more, etc. Theres only so much you can bluntly say to someone before they shun everyone. The mother is lovely, but she is the stereotypical type to be very very offended if something was said to make her out to be a bad mother - which she is not! I have tried supporting her in every way i can - including saying that the daughter needs to see a doctor immedietaly, but with little response. I don't see any other way of trying to help. Sorry if it sounded like i was being cold hearted! Not the case in the slightest! xx
What is wrong with her? Can't she see her child is unwell?? I just can't understand people like that...too proud to put her child first it seems? Don't you think she is feeding her then? xxx
If you and others have tried talking to her and you are still concerned, esp if the lo looks ill then yes I do have to agree with you that something more had to be done. And I agree with EmmaLou's last post.
Also i did mention that she is NOT being abused... she looks very ill all the time. The mother has also shunned the doctors - when she did take her - from doing blood tests to understand something to do with the infection she had. Different subject but would there be any reason not to have them done? x
The more you say the more I agree with you about calling the ss on her. If your child is ill why the hell would you ignore doctor's advice? I would get any tests done on my lo if it was to help her. It all sounds very strange!
But whalemummy said that when she had been to the docs she's shunned the doctors and not had tests done.....surely you wouldn't do that if your lo ill or you thought they were ill? That's why you go there in the 1st place..?!
I rang the SS because i didn't know anyone else who could get through to her as she won't listen to friends, doctors, and refuses to see a HV as says they're pointless (she has got a point with that one as we use the same one and she is useless). I just thought as a last resort kick up the arse would be a visit to say "if you need help we are here to give it. Don't shun us". xxx
I don't know what to say at this point, I hope you are right that there is something terribly wrong or it's a case choosing to make yourself feel better not helping someone.
At the same time this is starting stink of feeling everyone has to conform to a specific set of rules or else they are made to conform... Her mum wouldn't have a blood test... why? Mums only make that kind of decision for two reasons either they have strong religious beliefs or genuine belief their child is well, or they genuinely want to make their child poorly. Most mothers do not fall in to the later category. I wouldn't decline my child a blood transfusion but I will be last person to call someone a bad mother when they do it because they believe it's right in their moral view. So many times a mother pleads with a doctor because she knows intuitively her baby is ill, and the mother is almost always very right. Perhaps she knows her daughter is okay, or if she has taken her to the doctor than she is showing concern and willing to take action for her daughter. Perhaps something is wrong but fear of you judging her, like calling ss!, makes her not confide everything to you. Either way I hope it all works out for the best as it's said and done now. I hope you at least have the loyalty to tell her you've called them and let her have some warning. Hiding behind a confidential caller is pretty low either way.
Just to add to the whole jehovas witness thing my dad is one, and when i had jack and lost 8pts of blood and needed a blood transfusion he went crazy at hospital staff and me saying i shouldnt have it and yes should die - the reason being?? they see it as a foreign body and we should not have any thing that isnt our own in our bodies?? also same with tattoos, alcohol etc How could he justify me dying for sake of someone else giving me some of there blood to help save my life? I think it is wrong that it is allowed, thank god i was 18 at the time or i wouldnt be here now!
No one should have the right to play god with someone elses life in my view!
[Modified by: sara1984 on December 07, 2008 04:27 PM]
sorry to gatecrash but......oh my god I really hope that this has a good outcome for the little one and your friendship with the mother cos if not it may be the end of that little one and she will be the only one to suffer. It must have been hard for you to do it, but to be honest if you, her friends and health visitors cannot get through to help her how the hell are social services supposed to without taking the child away??? After the really crap press thats going on about social services and child care workers I really hope that they don't go in all guns blazing and make things worse.(if they do anything at all) If lo really is poorly then lets hope she gets well and her mum gets the help she may need. Sorry my comments arnt very possitive but If someone called social services on me and I found out who it was I'd probably murder them.(even though i've got nothing to hide but thats not the point) Please if you can, let us know if you hear how the lo is......afterall thats what this is about isnt it??
donna and poppy,yes i was too disgusted and me and my dad have only really started getting on recently, that was nearly 6 and half yrs ago now! in that time my dad has had several tattoos and gets pissed regularly, COMPLETE HYPOCRITE just think if i had not have had it, the guilt on his head would be immense!! ppl change their views bout things like they change there socks, soi think health proffesional should have the right to intervene and save a childs life,cos like i said, no one should be able to play god with anyones life!!
Tall Katie, Ellie is over 8 months & only 15lb 4oz. I have had a constant NIGHTMARE with her feeding & only 3 weeks ago discovered she is cows milk protein intolerant. She had suspected colic for the first 3 months, cried constantly then hardly ate anything at all like 10oz milk all day long then I weaned her at 6 months she screamed blue murder when her bottle went near her & I had to literally force feed her. I know how hard it is when your baby won't eat, they are underweight & you are trying to do all you can so if I were you i'd ask HV if it's possible she could be intolerant? It was a friend of mine suggested Elle had same symptoms of his LO who was & thank god he did or i'd still be battling.
On another note she is 8 months & I haven't been able to continue weaning her because of the intolerance so at the minute she gets dairy free porridge with fruit purree once a day....I don't agree with filling kids full of sweets, chocolate & crisps but I do agree with them having the fats that we all need incorpriated (sp?) into their diet! xx
the law in this country protects children and vulnerable people from religious beliefs such as blood transfusions so this whole other subtopic is pointless. back to the matter at hand - if whalemummy felt "so so guilty" why is she posting about it on here, looking for vindication maybe. dont think shes got it. Personally i really think she ought to tell the mother what she's done, not as a heads up but can you imagine how pissed off you'd be wondering day after day just who on earth has done this to you?! it would drive me mad. and she's got nowt to lose as she was only a friend "of sorts"
Ok there are more facts coming out now which sounds like you have a good reason for phoning, however, if she had been to the docs and refused tests etc, wouldn't the doctors have called if they were concerned?
From what you have said Whalemummy, I think you have done the right thing, if your friend will not listen to anyone else about this, there is nothing else you can do. I don't have any experience of social services but I hope they are not the child-snatching, accusing people they are made out to be - in fact after the Baby P story, I'm sure that they aren't - how could that go missed?
Maybe your friend just doesn't know how to feed her child? As Listef says, some people assume that children, should have a low fat diet. My friend used to feed her 10 month old, nothing but fruit puree for lunch. And to try and avoid fat/sugar in her diet. The HV asked what she was feeding her (because she had dropped a few centiles) & when she told her she went mad, she said she should be eating cheese sandwiches, yogurts, fish pies,meats etc to get all her vitamins. Now my friends little girl looks perfectly healthy and always has, but my point is some people just dont know what a baby should be eating - they assume a healthy diet for a baby is the same as a healthy diet for an adult (ie. low fat, high fibre).
Hopefully SS will provide the support your friend needs xx
I do actually agree with Emmalou about the blood transfusions. If something could save your child's life then I don't know how you could refuse it on religious grounds x
well done Emmalou for sticking to your comments, they are your views and yet again it has turned into an argument for no reason! i think jahovahs witnesses can have any belief they want and if they want to refuse blood transfusions then fine, but they should not make that decision for their children, and i agree i think medics should intervene and put the lives of children first and when they are old enough to make that decision for themselves thats fine! Thats my view and i will not apologise for that! Even if this thread has gone completely off topic!!!
i think the issue with JW's is not their beliefs but the fact they force that decision onto their children and as a consequence their children could die! i think the fact that we are in 2008 means things like this should be challenged, you've got people who are terminally ill and their loved ones help them die to stop their suffering yet they are sent to prison! justice????
I am a religious person and have to say although I dont 'commit' myself to a particular religion (whos to say which ones are right and wrong) I do try to follow the bible inc. the OT as do JWs. I can completely understand why JW do not accept blood transfusions but cannot say (God forbid) if I was faced with the decision that I could refuse 1. My boys mean the world to me and I dont think I could watch them die knowing that something could've been done but I am not so small minded that I cant understand JW beliefs. Unfortunately religion is the bases of many wars in this world but its the people themselves that are the causes. We should all be able to accept ither peoples beliefs whatever or whether we believe. xx
Replies
And I agree with EmmaLou's last post.
At the same time this is starting stink of feeling everyone has to conform to a specific set of rules or else they are made to conform... Her mum wouldn't have a blood test... why? Mums only make that kind of decision for two reasons either they have strong religious beliefs or genuine belief their child is well, or they genuinely want to make their child poorly. Most mothers do not fall in to the later category. I wouldn't decline my child a blood transfusion but I will be last person to call someone a bad mother when they do it because they believe it's right in their moral view. So many times a mother pleads with a doctor because she knows intuitively her baby is ill, and the mother is almost always very right. Perhaps she knows her daughter is okay, or if she has taken her to the doctor than she is showing concern and willing to take action for her daughter. Perhaps something is wrong but fear of you judging her, like calling ss!, makes her not confide everything to you. Either way I hope it all works out for the best as it's said and done now. I hope you at least have the loyalty to tell her you've called them and let her have some warning. Hiding behind a confidential caller is pretty low either way.
No one should have the right to play god with someone elses life in my view!
[Modified by: sara1984 on December 07, 2008 04:27 PM]
It must have been hard for you to do it, but to be honest if you, her friends and health visitors cannot get through to help her how the hell are social services supposed to without taking the child away???
After the really crap press thats going on about social services and child care workers I really hope that they don't go in all guns blazing and make things worse.(if they do anything at all)
If lo really is poorly then lets hope she gets well and her mum gets the help she may need.
Sorry my comments arnt very possitive but If someone called social services on me and I found out who it was I'd probably murder them.(even though i've got nothing to hide but thats not the point)
Please if you can, let us know if you hear how the lo is......afterall thats what this is about isnt it??
She had suspected colic for the first 3 months, cried constantly then hardly ate anything at all like 10oz milk all day long then I weaned her at 6 months she screamed blue murder when her bottle went near her & I had to literally force feed her.
I know how hard it is when your baby won't eat, they are underweight & you are trying to do all you can so if I were you i'd ask HV if it's possible she could be intolerant? It was a friend of mine suggested Elle had same symptoms of his LO who was & thank god he did or i'd still be battling.
On another note she is 8 months & I haven't been able to continue weaning her because of the intolerance so at the minute she gets dairy free porridge with fruit purree once a day....I don't agree with filling kids full of sweets, chocolate & crisps but I do agree with them having the fats that we all need incorpriated (sp?) into their diet! xx
Maybe your friend just doesn't know how to feed her child? As Listef says, some people assume that children, should have a low fat diet. My friend used to feed her 10 month old, nothing but fruit puree for lunch. And to try and avoid fat/sugar in her diet. The HV asked what she was feeding her (because she had dropped a few centiles) & when she told her she went mad, she said she should be eating cheese sandwiches, yogurts, fish pies,meats etc to get all her vitamins. Now my friends little girl looks perfectly healthy and always has, but my point is some people just dont know what a baby should be eating - they assume a healthy diet for a baby is the same as a healthy diet for an adult (ie. low fat, high fibre).
Hopefully SS will provide the support your friend needs xx
Thats my view and i will not apologise for that!
Even if this thread has gone completely off topic!!!